Floored by the power spike of TRADING. This will ruin the game.

Game seems to be balanced around either engaging in trading or crafting. Either way will get you through the campaign without much trouble at least.

"

Zeddrik#7843 wrote:

Trading will never go away in poe1, 2, 3, 4, 5 its like telling Chris and Jonathan
to make an option to skip campaign and jump into end game straight away, aint gone happen has not in 12+ years of poe.

For them trading in d2 was one of the best things in that game, and tellin them to remove trading is like telling them to aganst one of the core Philosophy in designing poe and poe 2.

Heck you prob have easyer time trying to convince them to aoe vakum currencys like gold.

I have not advocated for trade to be removed, I have detailed that in POE 2's current state it's more of a detriment than a boon to fun. Others have presented how great trade was in Diablo 2 back in the day, but the current trading culture is not the exploratory and fun and community building exercise that it once was.

It has turned into an immediate power jump for next to no effort. It destroys the balance and robs a great deal of satisfaction from players in so many ways that have been detailed in this thread.

Ideally top end players could find rare items and haggle over them and we'd have the good old days back again where you find a rare item and you have to engage with people to try to trade up and find better gear.

But that magic of bartering is long dead. This new system has reduced trade to a currency system where players nickle and dime their way to power and pre determine theri builds at the onset, and progression becomes an exercise in time and cost with no spikes or unpredictability. I've said it so many times, but this is the crux of the problem. The magic is robbed.

One way or another we need that magic of getting that unique 2 handed hammer that's going to blow our socks off and allow us to do 2x more damage that we found ourselves.

If they can find a way to do that wit trade in tact, hats off. But we live in different era of gaming, people are plugged in, people are hardcore players right out of the gate looking to minimize their playtime with a game using any means possible for whatever reason. The power players of YouTube and Twitch have spread their min maxing, power playing and made the 12 hour daily grind to reach end game the norm at any cost.

People don't want to enjoy the systems any more, and the sum total fun they will allow themselves to have will be bottlenecked by what rules the game gives you.

It's sad, but given the chance many will press the easy mode button of trade, and then others will press it to to compete because everyone wants to be that leet gamer. And then the whole of the content will fall and the game will become another currency simulator where people engage with the game from time to time to use the items they got on a website, but that link of dopamine between playing the game and finding cool new things that influence your build and power spikes will be forever lost.

"

WildPartyHat#6856 wrote:

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

Someone raised a great point earlier, and this phenomenon is duplicated in most all other games.

People love when there is a new league. When everyone is set to 0 and everything is FAIR.

People may not be aware of the affect of trade on a game, but they can FEEL it. They can see everyone else around them advancing fast, they can see the content being chewed up at a rapid pace. They know they are gated from reaching further into the game as other players zoom through it.

With trade no no one enjoys a huge % of the content. Those who do not engage are hard blocked and suffering intensely difficult content all the way through. THose who are trading are zooming through and it feels like a slog.

If the game isn't balanced around self find the balance falls apart.

It's FAIRNESS that is fun, it's the grind that is fun, that feeling of self discovery, that rekindled value in the drops you are finding because YOU KNOW that you can't trade for that yet, you have to find it.

It is demonstrably true that trade robs the player base of self discovery and self actualization which is core to the gameplay loop of the ARPG.

If we did away with the trade window and to give your items to friends you had to drop it on the ground for them to pick it up like the old days, I think we'd be in a much better spot with trade. That simple change would return trade to a kindness and something you engage with trust with others.

At this point I have to believe you're trolling. A ton of people have come in here and told you that they find trade fun, and to stop projecting what YOU find fun onto others, and you have continued to shout into the void instead of responding to them. I personally love trade and its impact on the game, but I'm not demanding GGG remove SSF.

I'm not trolling. It's understood that there are a great deal of POE 1 players here who are not happy with the difficulty of this game.

It's only natural that they would fear an ultra punishing game where they have to die and feel gated by action mechanics. I understand this mindset, I experienced it to a degree myself playing the game.

Getting one shot on the 5th attempt on a boss for missing a dodge roll was almost enough to get me to go to the auction house.

But there is a sweet spot that can be found, they can find a loot system that is more forgiving that allows players to find new runes, charms (I know they're not in POE, but i'm making a point), and other items that will eventually make content trivial if we farm enough.

THAT is the issue, is that this is early access and they are either gating the cool items and mechanics a bit, or they simply haven't developed them yet.

The skill tree and boss and play mechanics are 10/10 PHENOMINAL base.

The item progression is a 5. And honestly this is to be expected, because they need to nail the core systems before they go nuts creating inventive new bonuses and stats, and find out where they can inject fun and unique power points after they develop the base game, which they have done a fantastic job with so far.

But it is a bit alarming, the state of trade right now. And it's just as alarming that so many players are perfectly ok with these massive and easily obtained power jumps that will rob so many of experiencing such a wonderful game as it was balanced to be enjoyed.

If you give any random player the chance to get a weapon that cuts down every boss in one hit, and you ask them if they want it when they're 10 deaths deep on a very hard boss, they're going to take the damn sword in a moment of weakness. And then they'll beat the next boss in one hit, and the next boss.

And the game is ruined.

"

WildPartyHat#6856 wrote:

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

Someone raised a great point earlier, and this phenomenon is duplicated in most all other games.

People love when there is a new league. When everyone is set to 0 and everything is FAIR.

People may not be aware of the affect of trade on a game, but they can FEEL it. They can see everyone else around them advancing fast, they can see the content being chewed up at a rapid pace. They know they are gated from reaching further into the game as other players zoom through it.

With trade no no one enjoys a huge % of the content. Those who do not engage are hard blocked and suffering intensely difficult content all the way through. THose who are trading are zooming through and it feels like a slog.

If the game isn't balanced around self find the balance falls apart.

It's FAIRNESS that is fun, it's the grind that is fun, that feeling of self discovery, that rekindled value in the drops you are finding because YOU KNOW that you can't trade for that yet, you have to find it.

It is demonstrably true that trade robs the player base of self discovery and self actualization which is core to the gameplay loop of the ARPG.

If we did away with the trade window and to give your items to friends you had to drop it on the ground for them to pick it up like the old days, I think we'd be in a much better spot with trade. That simple change would return trade to a kindness and something you engage with trust with others.

At this point I have to believe you're trolling. A ton of people have come in here and told you that they find trade fun, and to stop projecting what YOU find fun onto others, and you have continued to shout into the void instead of responding to them. I personally love trade and its impact on the game, but I'm not demanding GGG remove SSF.

I'm not trolling. It's understood that there are a great deal of POE 1 players here who are not happy with the difficulty of this game.

It's only natural that they would fear an ultra punishing game where they have to die and feel gated by action mechanics. I understand this mindset, I experienced it to a degree myself playing the game.

Getting one shot on the 5th attempt on a boss for missing a dodge roll was almost enough to get me to go to the auction house.

But there CAN be a sweet spot, they can find a loot system that is more forgiving that allows players to find new runes, charms (I know they're not in POE, but i'm making a point), and other items that will eventually make content trivial if we farm enough in a given area. Because POE lacks this meaningful ability to farm power for ourselves over time, it feels as though trade is necessary, but it's a crutch that defeats the inherent purpose of playing the game.

THAT is the issue, that this is early access and they are either gating the cool items and mechanics a bit, or they simply haven't developed them yet because they need to build the core first.

The skill tree and boss and play mechanics are 10/10, it's a PHENOMINAL base. But all these mechanics are squandered if players are able to easily trivialize the challenge.

The item progression is a 5. And honestly this is to be expected, because they need to nail the core systems before they go nuts creating inventive new bonuses and stats, and find out where they can inject fun and unique power points after they develop the base game, which they have done a fantastic job with so far.

But it is a bit alarming, the state of trade right now. And it's just as alarming that so many players are perfectly ok with these massive and easily obtained power jumps that will rob so many of experiencing such a wonderful game as it was balanced to be enjoyed.

If you give any random player the chance to get a weapon that cuts down every boss in one hit, and you ask them if they want it when they're 10 deaths deep on a very hard boss, they're going to take the damn sword in a moment of weakness. And then they'll beat the next boss in one hit, and the next boss.

And the game is ruined.

I completely agree, it totally wrecks the challenge. That's why I don't trade. I'll sell a few items, because I cannot find currency, but I have almost never bought anything. It doesn't bother me that some people do, if that's how they want to roll, they can. For me, I'll always be self-imposed SSF. Simple, you always have a choice.

The real issue is, currency is still far too rare. If exalts were common enough then upgrades on the trade site would be super expensive and you'd be better off using your currency to craft your own items.

But exalts / regals / alchs are still way too rare, so in turn they are valuable. You don't want to waste them on crafting so you hoard them and just buy upgrades on the trade site.

This is the same reason crafting in PoE 1 sucked. Based on what they said pre-launch I thought they were going to fix it, but no. The market is still way stronger than your ability to craft your own items.

"

inethil#2258 wrote:

I completely agree, it totally wrecks the challenge. That's why I don't trade. I'll sell a few items, because I cannot find currency

This is the problem. It was the same problem in PoE 1.

You can't find currency, so crafting is not a realistic means of progression. You are far better off taking whatever currency you find and using it to buy upgrades on the trade site. This is why crafting in PoE 1 sucked.

Currency needs to be way, way more common in game. If every item on the trade site were significantly more expensive (due to more common currency leading to inflation), then you might be better off taking a chance at crafting your own. As is, crafting will always take a back seat to trading because crafting currency is way too rare.

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

It makes the experience less fun, for the vast majority of players.

Always fun when a random dude has the audacity to talk for 500k+ players.

If it makes it less fun for you thats totally fine. But why the fuck must the complainers constantly drag in the "vast majority of players" to prove they have the "correct" opinion...

Fun is subjective. I much rather buy good items for a few exalts than wasting them trying to craft it myself and get unlucky.
For you it apparently makes it less fun.

Both viewpoints are valid. And neither is the correct or wrong one...

"

Arruzaki#3625 wrote:

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

It makes the experience less fun, for the vast majority of players.

Always fun when a random dude has the audacity to talk for 500k+ players.

If it makes it less fun for you thats totally fine. But why the fuck must the complainers constantly drag in the "vast majority of players" to prove they have the "correct" opinion...

Fun is subjective. I much rather buy good items for a few exalts than wasting them trying to craft it myself and get unlucky.
For you it apparently makes it less fun.

Both viewpoints are valid. And neither is the correct or wrong one...

It's not subjective.

Players dive into leagues and other fresh start games because they like being connected to their power progression, they like the core loop of play unhindered by outside elements. Trade is the antithesis of this fairness and freshness.

Few people go out of their way to find a game where they can get better loot because it's been fully played and high level players are tossing their old items on an auction house. It's considered a detriment to fun.

Generally speaking more items for sale, cheaper power = a worse experience.

Leagues are popular for a reason. People like finding their items without trade destroying the experience.

Let me ask you guys a question... have you guys ever waited around for a server to "mature" so that there would be tons of items to get at a cheap price, more powerful equipment to grab from higher players so you didn't have to grind through a game?

Or do you guys prefer to be at the head of the pack, and experiencing the growth of power in a setting where you are forging your own destiny?

Think these guys are onto something. Play SSF or don't use trade. POE has always had this trade effect and likely and always should. Some of us just play the market