10% XP loss Death Penalty Feedback!

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

Its okay not to be able to hit lvl 100. Your build is done anyways. The last 10 passive points, while beneficial to your build, arent going to be the reason why it has success, or fails. Right now its hard to hit 100. If you make it easy enough for any build to reach simply by banging your head against the wall long enough, then you remove any sense of accomplishment that comes with it, which is essentially all the last 10 levels are...your ability to play the game while dying as little as possible. Losing XP really isnt that big of a deal when you really put it into perspective. Your build on the tree is finished, you did it!

Grind for the Loot/Currency and try to take down the pinnacle bosses! Its okay if some people cant close out those last 10 levels. They aren't necessary.

What if I want to hit 100, because I enjoy seeing the '100' next to my character?

I know it doesn't matter, because my character doesn't really get that much stronger. I know you can basically play the entire game at like level 80 something, but I still enjoy seeing that 100 next to my character.


I have another example that I can share. I really enjoy playing Minecraft. I know I can play the whole game in what is basically a mud hut. But I really enjoy building a castle. Like, every time I play minecraft. I just build a castle. And they get bigger and bigger each time. It's what I like about the game.

Do you ever do something in video games, just because you like it? Do you have an example of something you could share?

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

If you make it easy enough for any build to reach simply by banging your head against the wall long enough, then you remove any sense of accomplishment that comes with it

That's what we have now. Go grind out easy content long enough and you'll hit 100.

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

Its okay not to be able to hit lvl 100. Your build is done anyways. The last 10 passive points, while beneficial to your build, arent going to be the reason why it has success, or fails. Right now its hard to hit 100. If you make it easy enough for any build to reach simply by banging your head against the wall long enough, then you remove any sense of accomplishment that comes with it, which is essentially all the last 10 levels are...your ability to play the game while dying as little as possible. Losing XP really isnt that big of a deal when you really put it into perspective. Your build on the tree is finished, you did it!

Grind for the Loot/Currency and try to take down the pinnacle bosses! Its okay if some people cant close out those last 10 levels. They aren't necessary.

Just because they are technically not required doesnt mean there should be a gate preventing players from getting there.

The game is supposed to be challenging and offer a toolkit to make your own build and constantly work on it. That requires failure. You have to push your build to a point where it fails to see what you have to improve. But that situation is not happening. Like PoE1 players just copy builds that work so they get into smooth sailing and can just beat the content. This is also visible through these threads as some players simply throwing in some "git gud" while completely failing to recognize that dying is an elemental part of the game and shouldnt be punished.

XP loss on death isn't going anywhere. Guaranteed. Y'all should move on from the topic.

XP loss is a bad idea when the balance is so skewed. I mean that it can take many successful maps before you get to 10% but only one death to lose it.

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What if I want to hit 100, because I enjoy seeing the '100' next to my character?

I know it doesn't matter, because my character doesn't really get that much stronger. I know you can basically play the entire game at like level 80 something, but I still enjoy seeing that 100 next to my character.


I have another example that I can share. I really enjoy playing Minecraft. I know I can play the whole game in what is basically a mud hut. But I really enjoy building a castle. Like, every time I play minecraft. I just build a castle. And they get bigger and bigger each time. It's what I like about the game.

Do you ever do something in video games, just because you like it? Do you have an example of something you could share?

Nothing wrong with your take on it, its the most common one. It feels good to hit the max level in a video game. No doubt. I just want to add that its also okay to not get everything you want. You beat the game, right? You're doing endgame content? Post game content meant to provide challenges and achievements beyond the campaign experience? Maybe its okay that those are hard, and maybe not everyone will be able to complete it. Thats good, not bad.

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

Maybe its okay that those are hard, and maybe not everyone will be able to complete it. Thats good, not bad.

But it's not hard. It's punishing. There is a difference.
The only thing getting to 100 requires is grinding out content you're overgeared and overleveled for.

The game is made easier because of the punishments, because they can't make it challenging.

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

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What if I want to hit 100, because I enjoy seeing the '100' next to my character?

I know it doesn't matter, because my character doesn't really get that much stronger. I know you can basically play the entire game at like level 80 something, but I still enjoy seeing that 100 next to my character.


I have another example that I can share. I really enjoy playing Minecraft. I know I can play the whole game in what is basically a mud hut. But I really enjoy building a castle. Like, every time I play minecraft. I just build a castle. And they get bigger and bigger each time. It's what I like about the game.

Do you ever do something in video games, just because you like it? Do you have an example of something you could share?

Nothing wrong with your take on it, its the most common one. It feels good to hit the max level in a video game. No doubt. I just want to add that its also okay to not get everything you want. You beat the game, right? You're doing endgame content? Post game content meant to provide challenges and achievements beyond the campaign experience? Maybe its okay that those are hard, and maybe not everyone will be able to complete it. Thats good, not bad.

Well. I don't generally play video games to not enjoy myself. I really enjoy hitting max level in games, and when a game is using punishing mechanics that stop me from doing that. It's not an enjoyable experience.

Getting to level 100 already takes a huge amount of time. It doesn't need the added frustration and 4-5 hour setbacks too.

There are other, better ways to challenge a player. This is what the main issue is. That the mechanic is punishing, and frustrating. And not adding good value to the game. I would rather fight super difficult bosses to progress my levels, than worry about xp on death mechanics.

Mechanics like XP on death, Give the illusion of difficulty. People equate time, and frustration = harder game. But that's not how peoples minds work.

A little bit of frustration is great for a game. It's a great incentive, it helps people learn. The issue is when it's too much. And when something like level 100, takes people 150 hours. And then, every death you have adds 5 hours to that. That's far exceeding most players limit for frustration.

It's not whether or not everyone should be able to hit level 100. It's that the experience should be an enjoyable one. With good, well designed frustration and challenges. Not huge fuck you's, and here's a kick to the nuts for good measure, frustration.

Understand what I'm saying?

I'm surprised that the discussion is going on in one thread.
That's how many pros and cons there are. With multilingualization and support for PS5, PoE2 has a lot of players.
There are probably more players who don't play the old hack-and-slash games.
GGG needs to answer what kind of players he's making the game for and what he wants to do in the future.

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

Maybe its okay that those are hard, and maybe not everyone will be able to complete it. Thats good, not bad.

But it's not hard. It's punishing. There is a difference.
The only thing getting to 100 requires is grinding out content you're overgeared and overleveled for.

The game is made easier because of the punishments, because they can't make it challenging.

Why are you dying in easy content you are over-geared and over-leveled for?