To everyone who ever argued "melee is fine"

The only people arguing that melee is fine and trying to trigger are the people who don't play it

I've got more playtime with melee characters than 90% of the whiners in this forum combined dude, but nice try.

I wouldn't go getting too hyped just yet, sure some of this stuff looks good on paper but some of it is confusing or needs "testing" by the players to see if it accomplished "fixing" melee.

So they removed totems, and replaced them with skinny totems (banners)?

And i may not have been paying enough attention but the melee skills getting an buff, but it looked like they removed the flat phys damage in exchange so i'm not sure how much of a difference to damage it will make, but it should push people even harder into stacking flat damage.

And the main thing that will always make people say melee is bad is how they deal with defences when you are right in the thick of it compared to any ranged class.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I've got more playtime with melee characters than 90% of the whiners in this forum combined dude, but nice try.

I'm in too good of a mood I'll just assume you have some attack speed stacking thing you're bitter about and move on.

Just a random thought because the arguing I was going to do has turned into actual chuckling: 688% dmg effectiveness on GS of earthshaking loooooool

Hell the numbers might even make Bloodthirst worth the squeeze.

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Immoteph wrote:

Melee was fine. You need to stop thinking in terms of Uber bosses in ssf hc.
Melee can clear the campaign. Melee can feel good. Melee can be somewhat competitive in T16s.

Surely when judging a build it has to be compared to other options, rather than just taken in a vacuum.

If "fine" means "possible to beat most game content given enough time, skill and resource" then all skills are fine, but most people mean "my efforts are roughly equally rewarded with this build compared to others".

sure, its all good if what you want is to see how far you can get with a melee build, but what if your aim is to beat as much of the game as you can and you don't want to feel punished for your skill choice?

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alhazred70 wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I've got more playtime with melee characters than 90% of the whiners in this forum combined dude, but nice try.

I'm in too good of a mood I'll just assume you have some attack speed stacking thing you're bitter about and move on.

I am not bitter in the slightest. Those changes have way more positives than negatives so i consider them a good thing overall.

I merely pointed out that this isn't the massive buff to melee numbers that you make it out to be. Even if it's not a net nerf it isn't much of a buff either as far as overall numbers go.
The real takeaway is the reduction of many of the "fun taxes" that melee used to suffer from. I.e Totems and Warcrys. We now got banners instead though so there is that...

I'm probably playing Frost Blades Warden as my second build this league, but you'd need a black belt in Doublethink to consider that skill melee.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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alhazred70 wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I've got more playtime with melee characters than 90% of the whiners in this forum combined dude, but nice try.

I'm in too good of a mood I'll just assume you have some attack speed stacking thing you're bitter about and move on.

I am not bitter in the slightest. Those changes have way more positives than negatives so i consider them a good thing overall.

I merely pointed out that this isn't the massive buff to melee numbers that you make it out to be. Even if it's not a net nerf it isn't much of a buff either as far as overall numbers go.
The real takeaway is the reduction of many of the "fun taxes" that melee used to suffer from. I.e Totems and Warcrys. We now got banners instead though so there is that...

I don't remember banners having a clunky totem placement casting animation, an "activation range" an "activation time" or a health pool. So I think this is not a reasonable comparison. but I totally get why some people will hate pressing extra buttons instead of getting passive benefit.

The premis is not that melee is perfect, its that if melee was "fine" why did they just nearly double dmg effect of tons of melee skills based on testing?

Yeah removal of flat sucks and once again shows that they don't play their game enough to understand how badly RNG can fuck a melee. But the math is still very much there. Especially for skills that didn't have any/much flat or where they had "pre converted" elemental dmg of physical skills like GH and IB.

Hell if nothing else had happened I would be Happy to hear that GGG employed TESTING METHODOLOGY to try and find out how much they needed to buff by putting spells with "75% percentile gear" up against melee skills with that level of gear.

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Esubane wrote:

melee sucks in most ARPG's.

Uh...no? Melee is mostly fine (as in it can handle most of the endgame content sufficiently if not optimally) in:

Diablo 1 (KSOH FTW)
Diablo 2
Diablo 3
Diablo 4
Torchlight
Torchlight 2
Titan Quest
Grim Dawn
Sacred 2
Warhammer 40k Inquisitor (especially amusing given it's got *actual* guns of various dakka and pew varieties)
Wolcen (FWIW)
Not sure about Last Epoch, given it's the most post-PoE ARPG ever and it wouldn't surprise me if EHG copied GGG's inability to balance melee properly

Did I miss any of the big ones? Or even the medium-sized ones?

Don't gaslight yourself into thinking, 'melee sucks in PoE and PoE is an ARPG in fact it's the only ARPG I play therefore melee sucks in ARPGs'. That's how They win.

Melee hasn't been fine in PoE *ever*. It's just been varying degrees of not-suck-compared-to-ranged. Its first real moment of glory was Kripp's ground slam build and even THAT is, by most standards, more like mid-range compared to true CQC.

__

PS Melee is fine

melee lost all its flat added. got its % hugely increased (some skills almost trippled)

what does that mean?

STR stacking to the rescue! even with garbage, no effort setup - BLS + 500 STR (aka NO MONEY invested, Act7 gear) it beats pretty much any phys weapon you could reasonably craft (but you wont, because it costs a fortune). BLS + 1500 STR beats ANY phys weapon ever created for a fraction of a cost. and then there are Alberon's and shit that make it even more stupid

DEX stacking? same story.

INT stacking - omfg Ephemeral Edge/Energy Blade got buffed to levels no phys build will EVER match. it is actually insulting to see that the tankiest and strongest melee builds wear ES chests and stack INT.



sure, melee is fine once you dump the idea that weapon actually matters and go get the damage elsewhere

%increases on weapons only made this 100% more true. GGG did actually NOTHING to fix that this patch. what is the point of phys weapons now? Energy Blade gives you 1-3500 or whatever. previously it got multiplier by ~200% effectiveness, now it gets 500%. seriously, wtf? is phys weapons only for bleeds? (conversion died with Hatred, pure phys is garbage)


oh, and nice fixing Stun as melee thing. ZERO changes, still shit.