To everyone who ever argued "melee is fine"

Melee has never been fine. Yes you can clear the game with it but comparitively speaking its frustratingly bad compared to ranged/caster I've played melee the most and ranged the least and my ranged char blows thru whole game hardly ever dying, clearing 17s, deep delve, all bosses with a 10th of the time and money invested in it vs my melee which can hardly just clear 17s, sturggles in delve and dies to ubers due to lack of defence for melee and how shit proximity attacks are in this that they all seem to be focused on killing anything close range (melee) and are easier to avoid and survive from a distance.

Weird flex GGG.

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Pashid wrote:

Lot's of this "melee was not fine" talking was nothing but players parrot after the words of their favorite streamers. In most cases meaningless whining cause melee did required more skill and knowledge than other archetypes and had a slower pacing to tackle Ubers especially in hc, a mode that's know to be out of touch in terms of base game balance since years.
But you can tell that some people didn't really played much to actually know that melee wasn't entirely garbage like some claim. Not playing at all or being a rather new player gives you little to no knowledge to overcome the difficulty melee has to offer after all.

But watch the same crowd still cry about melee being bad cause they still have to get good with the more challenging archetype after all. Some higher damage numbers won't fix the lacking skill or knowledge of some players after all, and watching favorite streamer x all day ain't gonna fix that either even with a proper provided build guide lol

100% this.

Too bad favorite streamer doesnt equal Mathil he makes some of the most bizzare and cracked melee builds that push uber content EVERY league.

Its just copy pasta like you said from others.

melee sucks in most ARPG's. it's hard to balance this because a melee needs both more damage and more EHP than ranged.

-they have less damage opportunity - more dps needed
-they are up close with mobs - more tank needed

basically, builds that somewhat compete with ranged are prohibitively expensive. Very few players make it to 200+ divine budget in a typical league (not affliction or necro). And good melee requires that much for just a fucking weapon because somebody out there gave 25-50 weighting to high tier physical modifiers, opposed to 1000 weighting on crap like +14 to maximum life.

But melee was fine...as long as you didn't play it.


Well looks like the eagles are coming...

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Immoteph wrote:

Melee was fine. You need to stop thinking in terms of Uber bosses in ssf hc.

no one here is doing either of those I just told you the GGG boys literally were testing melee progression/clear against spell build progress/clear using somewhat scienc-y non-biased methodology and gear assumptions and you're just making up a story like every "melee is fine" apologist ever.

they determined their buff numbers using testing not forum narratives... Finally. its about time.

And they found guys like you to be approximately 200-300% wrong in some cases. Thats a lot of wrong, so much i can't believe anyone had the stones to try and defend it.

I will try some Boneshatter of Carnage and Glacial Hammer for sure.
I hoped a little more for the shield skills. The flat added barely changed and no damage effectivity increases leaves them behind quite a bit.

Im curious about the melee tincture stats i always meeded a good 5th flask.

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Pashid wrote:

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Immoteph wrote:

Melee was fine. You need to stop thinking in terms of Uber bosses in ssf hc.
Melee can clear the campaign. Melee can feel good. Melee can be somewhat competitive in T16s.

Lot's of this "melee was not fine" talking was nothing but players parrot after the words of their favorite streamers.

Man how many threads are you going to parrot the same idea that everyone gets their views handed to them by streamers?

Most streamers have been on the melee is fine bus for YEARS except Ben, and sometimes Alk for the last few leagues. But hey maybe we should listen to you instead of Ben right?

Anyway I can see some people are hurt that Melee was TESTED BY GGG AND FOUND TO BE SO OBVIOUSLY NOT FINE THAT THEY HAD TO ADD IN SOME CASES HUNDREDS OF DMG EFFECTIVENESS.

How do you preserve your narratives when you're so obviously proven wrong by GGG themselves? If you can't take the word of the games best player surely you can take GGG's internal testing?

No? Just going to rail against some nameless streamers and double down? Okay then.

Based on these patchnotes it makes me think that GGG agreed with the "melee is fine notion" at least powerwise. You can get all giddy with GGGs methodology here but the results count at the end. Most gems getting their base damage doubled and in some cases even trippled might sound great at first but then you realize they lost all their flat damage as well as the totem buffs and lot's of sources of attack speed and movement speed in the process. They also had their manacost significantly increased so you'll have to compensate for that which is going to cost damage elsewhere. I'd honestly say it's a net loss if we look at power alone, at best it's a zero sum game. The whole "melee needs 2-3 times the damage and attack speed" nonsense that you people have been throwing around for years is nowhere to be seen in these changes.

The big upside of these changes is QoL. Better base animation, warcries less of a drag, faster rage generation and no more totem deployment. Curious to see how "meta" melee will be the next few leagues. It will probably see a rise this league because of the changes but i don't think it will last. The fundamental problem of it being mechanically inferior to spells hasn't changed and it's also still vastly inferior to meta skills damage wise so same old same old.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Based on these patchnotes it makes me think that GGG agreed with the "melee is fine notion" at least powerwise. You can get all giddy with GGGs methodology here but the results count at the end. Most gems getting their base damage doubled and in some cases even trippled might sound great at first but then you realize they lost all their flat damage as well as the totem buffs and lot's of sources of attack speed and movement speed in the process. They also had their manacost significantly increased so you'll have to compensate for that which is going to cost damage elsewhere. I'd honestly say it's a net loss if we look at power alone. The whole "melee needs 2-3 times the damage and attack speed" nonsense that you people have been throwing around for years is nowhere to be seen in these changes.

The big upside of these changes is QoL. Better base animation, warcries less of a drag, faster rage generation and no more totem deployment. Curious to see how "meta" melee will be the next few leagues. It will probably see a rise this league because of the changes but i don't think it will last.

Net loss... Well no wonder some of you have been so wrong about this subject for so long.

Just do the math if you can. But let me guess, you can't? Gotta wait for Ben then to tell you what to think as usual.