Diablo 3 and this Game - What's the Difference?
" I cant Agree imo D2>D3>PoE , the fact is you dont even know how PoE will be..Its only like game demo, right now.. and you already saying its better then d2 and d3.. QQ talking to me. |
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" I would argue that D3 is only out of Beta in title. For all working purposes the current implementation is a Beta test. That being said, until full PoE release I will go with D1>D2>PoE>D3 :) |
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" Ok, I know this is derailing the topic just for a pointless rant against fanboys but...where do you think the items on the auction house come from? And relatedly, what do you think the frequency of finding an items that's a useful upgrade will be in end game PoE? How often did you find useful upgrade items on Baal runs when you were level 80+ in D2? This odd sense of entitlement to constantly find great items every day that people have about D3 reeks of MMO n00bs who don't have much experience with ARPGs. Hint: You have to play a LOT and kill a LOT of monsters to get great items at end game, or to build up the value to trade for them. Or, Blizz could just have made Inferno trivial instead of "too hard" (e.g. Zeltak in this thread: "waa waa waa, I'm so hardcore that I need everything to be made easier for me!") and you'd all be bitching about having beaten it in 3 days. Seriously, if you're going to have long pointless arguments about which game is "better", try to at least keep up with basic features of the genre. One last pro-tip: if you're someone who thinks one game is complete shit and one is god's gift to man, you're a fanboy. That's what it's called when you have irrationally strong hate for something that competes with your chosen brand affiliation, or describe your beloved in overly wrought terms like "last bastion of hope". It's a game, dude. Last edited by karoc#5526 on Jun 14, 2012, 6:48:16 PM
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lol so much mad^
I already wrote that I progressed through Inferno, I have completed it all, never did I recall asking for an easier time - please, if you are going to respond to me - at least quote me properly or don't say anything at all. I did state that it was designed for you to hit a brickwall, which is still true. Diablo 3 is a bad game for an Action RPG. Irrational hate would be fitting if I threw out senseless arguments as to why Diablo 3 is a dumbed down streamlined version of Diablo 2 meant to cater to a larger audience hence the sales. But, I actually wrote quite alot as to why exactly it is a bad game. Diablo 3 ruined a very strong series that I used to play for well over twelve-years, if I was any kind of fanboy, it would be a Diablo fanboy. There is no competition existing. I don't even know why you think it is. You got a game published by a well known company with over 7 million sales versus a closed beta game which has about an average of 500 accounts logged in per day. Why would I be fussed about some competition when it doesn't even exist? Diablo 3 will -always- no matter how bad it is, no matter how many methods they come up with to suck cash away from players, be the dominating game in the Action RPG genre. Cased closed. We all know this, I'm just saying, for the thousand or so people who are here to play PoE, we don't need the stupid shit that is in Diablo 3, one dumb game is enough, at least leave one option available for people who don't like to fight cartoon villains and play around with less than three different statistics where every skill is decided for you. Path of Exile is indeed the last bastion of hope for a solid Action RPG game when we are comparing the other two options which are Torchlight 2 and Diablo 3. To put it in layman's terms, PoE is the only modern Action RPG that I know off, that hasn't succumbed to designing it for stupid people. People who can't think with their heads. I'm talking about the modern Action RPG games, the ones that are about to come out in a short period of time or are already out. You are making a fool of yourself barging into this thread skimming through posts and throwing out assumptions. Besides, if you actually knew even a third of what you were talkin about, you would see that I have actually criticized PoE on several gameplay points which I hope they will fix or adjust. PoE is not perfect, but it is miles better from Diablo 3, which is a fundamentally broken game. If you feel immersed in this world: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcJ_XT3oWtY, then go play there? Last edited by Zeltak#4159 on Jun 14, 2012, 8:02:17 PM
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" Yeah, darn me for barging into a thread I already have multiple posts in... Your original post, way back when, made a lot of sense. I didn't reply to it. You have many legit criticisms, for sure. I too feel D3 has lost a lot of what made D2 and D1 special to me. But then you said, to take an example: "Kite, kite, kite, kite, instakilled. Respawn, kite, kite, kite, kite, instakilled, respawn. Kite, kite, kite, ok first champion back down, only had to die 5 times. This combat feels so fluid and dynamic." So you admit dying five times to kill one champion pack. I think it's interesting that Blizzard said, specifically, that people would need to gear up for weeks in Act 3/4 Hell to be able to tackle Act 1/2 Inferno. Then you start talking about how you die over and over in Inferno and that this makes the combat boring when the game has been out less than a month. The obvious conclusion is that you're just upset that the game is hard and didn't take the time to properly approach it. I apologize if you didn't actually want Inferno nerfed. I think you can understand how your complaint made it sound like you did, since you were complaining about dying all the time... I take that example because it speaks to how your view is skewed from that of the vast majority of people. Look, I think there's a big divide in these games between people who enjoy playing the game itself (i.e. beat normal or level to 60 in D3 then switch chars, beat Ruthless or Merciless in PoE but not bother with MoC) and people who want to spend their time grinding in Inferno or MoC or similar end game stuff. For poeple who like the former, D3 offers way more interesting skills and combat than PoE does. In the end game, sure, I see your criticisms - but it's not obvious PoE won't have the exact same flaws, and it's not obvious that such a small part of the game and small part of the playerbase should determine how the game is designed. Being someone who from his own admission has managed to corpse chain his way through Inferno already and levels to 60 in two days, it's pretty obvious you're in the latter camp. Ok. But the majority of the game of D3, for the majority of people, generally has quite a few positive points compared to PoE. More build diversity, more interesting combat, and so on. That's what the original poster was asking about, after all. The fact that you end with a parting shot about how I should just go play D3 says it all. You're a fanboy who can't handle people liking something he doesn't like, and can't compute the idea of liking both. But maybe if you restrict your view of D3 to "the part before Inferno," you can see the points people are making. Last edited by karoc#5526 on Jun 14, 2012, 8:22:18 PM
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Ok, let's do this again.
This entire text is a quote by the way. WHY DIABLO 3 IS A BAD GAME: ____________________________ * Extremely dumbed down from D2, with insulting amounts of hand-holding present everywhere. This ranges from autostats, all skills enabled, no skill levels, freespecing, restricted skill choices without elective mode enabled, simple skill tooltips, removal of almost all combat mechanic affixes, no weapon swap, 4 socketables vs the hundreds of D2, generic/boring legendaries, etc. * Lack of social support - poorly implemented chat channels, automatched game joining only, ghost town effect (similar to SC2's major problem with Bnet 2.0), 4 player limit = even less socializing. * Cheesy B-movie story-telling, cliche one-dimensional characters, corny voice-acting, non-sensical/comical actions by villains, predictable twists and plotline. * Lack of diverse character types within and among classes - no more physical/caster/hybrid - all character types now rely on weapon damage like physical characters in D2. This destroys a huge amount of itemization/gearing choices, as there's no longer a deviation between decentralized gear (caster) vs centralized gear (physical) vs a build that needs to balance the two (hybrid). In D3, there are no more physical barbs (frenzy/ww), caster barbs (singer), or hybrid barbs (BvC), there are only barbs that all base their gear on weapon damage (physical). * DRM online only - no offline single player, no lan support. Laggy servers, and all the same issues of botting, duping, spamming, and trade exploits present in a game that's over a decade old. * Crappy UI that's designed by a console developer - convoluted to navigate, clunky, and inefficient at utilizing screen space. * Approx FOUR times less legendaries (uniques/runewords) in the game than D2: * 9 chest pieces vs 37 uniques + 14 runewords * 18 swords vs 35 uniques + 26 runewords * 6 shields vs 22 uniques + 8 runewords * 7 helms vs 23 uniques + 5 runewords * 7 bows vs 19 uniques + 16 runewords It's actually more like 20x less if you consider that all but 1-2 legendaries per category are completely worthless - low/mid-level legendaries are unusable due to a general lack of utility mechanics present in the game, and no way to upgrade the base item to the next type (which would increase base damage or defense). * 4 gems vs 7 gems + 8 unique jewels + 33 runes + a NEAR LIMITLESS variety of magic/rare jewels. * Legendaries are generic, boring, and don't have the flavor that D2 uniques/runewords did. Legendaries hardly seem to have themes or any effort done to them anymore, and most are just cookie-cutter molds that have been pasted onto every Legendary item type. Randomization of 1-3 entire affixes also makes the item much less iconic or powerful than before. * Lack of combat mechanic affixes compared to D2: % CTC Skill on Striking % CTC Skill on Struck % CTC Skill on Attack % CTC Skill on Death % CTC Skill on Level Up % CTC Skill on Striking % CTC Skill when you kill an enemy Aura on Equipped +Skill (off-class) +Skill (class) Charged Skill Fires Explosive Arrows or Bolts Fires Magic Arrows or Bolts Knockback Slain Monsters Rest in Peace % Crushing Blow % Open Wounds % Hit Causes Monsters to Flee Freezes Target Cold Damage (Slows Target) % Slows Target Cannot Be Frozen Drain Life Hit Blinds Target % Reanimate as (Monster Type) Displays Full Set Aura Natalya's Permanent Fade State Trang Oul's Permanent Vampire State vs D3: % Fear % Stun % Slow % Immobilize % Chill % Freeze % Knockback % Blind And stun, slow, immobilize, chill, and freeze all pretty much do the same thing... * The removal of attack rating (accuracy), faster hit recover, and faster block rate equates to a severe loss of having to balance such stats on gear, and represents yet another dumbing down of the decisions you make in the game. * Much weaker bonuses on items in general aside from pure stats - less attack speed, less damage reduction, less run/walk speed = items feeling much less powerful than before and gear choices becoming much less meaningful or strategic. Set items also have extremely weak, almost laughable bonuses. * Inferno mode is broken. It's not more difficult, it's just cheap. 1/2-shots everywhere, melee is severely handicapped. A number of retarded monster affixes that should never have been put in. Most builds except for a select few aren't even viable. There's no semblance of strategy, just having the best gear possible and dumb luck in not hitting the wrong champions. Since when did Diablo change from a game where you mow down monsters and feel like a god, to one where you repeatedly get cheap-shotted over and over again in a boring grind? * Quests feel a lot more forced and non-optional than in D2. * RMAH diminishes the sense of achievement of finding items. Spending hours finding a great item just doesn't feel as rewarding when you know you can find something similar at the RMAH for a couple of cents. Although buying items with money was prevalent in D2, at least it was hidden away and not endorsed for all players to see and use. * Farming has shifted from item finding to gold finding - mainly due to the rarity of legendaries, the low cost of legendaries, as well as gold being a readily attainable universal currency. However, gold finding is considerably less fun than item finding. To give a comparison: D2 was like playing the slot machine, each pull of the lever and you had a chance at something amazing. D3 is like going to work everyday, earning a paycheck, then buying what you want with the money. * Outdoors feel a lot more linear, which is amplified by their completely static nature - there's less vast open areas with less monsters at a time compared to D2 = less opportunities to kill hoards of enemies at once. The cow level - which was one of the most iconic vast open areas with hundreds of monsters, has been reduced to ponyville - a cramped twisty area with few monsters. * No ethereal or superior items, no ability to create items with such properties or transmute it onto items you own, no gambling, no charms, no way to reroll item affixes. Mystic used to be able to do this, then got scrapped. All this just represents more dumbing down of features. * A late game character doesn't feel sufficiently stronger than an early game character. In D2, you felt weak in the early stages of the game, and like a complete badass in the later stages. Yet in D3, every spell is over-the-top and makes you feel powerful even 5 minutes into the game. Increased attack/cast speed are at much lower values than from D2 and inferno difficulty actually makes you feel a lot weaker than you did in the mid game. * Lack of character uniqueness/identity/ownership - all builds are freely changeable, many builds in the late game are similar or identical - no character permanence + lack of customizability = lack of character attachment. * Lack of in-depth customization - skills only have 1 level each so it's impossible to specialize in certain skills to the extent you could before. You can't specialize in builds that aren't predetermined for you through the passive trait system. Because there are no points to allocate, there's no more tinkering with unique builds, thinking about your build, or calculating your allocation of skill points/synergies. Although stats played a lesser extent (due to most people putting enough str to wear gear, and rest into vit), removing stats still removed some unique build options such as pure dex amazons, pure energy sorcs, pure str barbs, half/half varieties of the aforementioned, and max block vs 50% block vs passive block depending on dex allocations. * Lack of good PvP support - not even in the game yet, but when it does eventually arrive, it will suck. There's no 1v1s, no 2v2s, no in-game pk/pvp, no true team on team matches - only continuous-respawning deathmatch style matches on a timer. Furthermore, players are automatched by skill, so even players that are doing well will never truly feel like they are as there's nothing to show for it without a rating system. RMAH also pretty much equates to buying power. * No immersion or horror atmosphere - minimap with blinking dots and arrows, text messages and numbers popping up on screen for each attack or effect, annoying and repetitive character dialog every step of the way. Horror atmosphere is almost non-existent. Sure there's "gore", but the abundance of a bright colors, the cartoony almost surreal nature of the game, and the well-lit dungeons make it impossible for the game to scare you. * Low replayability - no point in making more than 1 character for each class. All unique builds can be tried out in the timespan of a few minutes, instead of a few weeks. Unique builds aren't practical in Inferno. Not enough depth in customization. Not enough depth in itemization. Bad pvp = low incentive to find loot. Bland loot = low incentive to find loot. Gold farming = low incentive to find loot. Low social support = less fun while playing. After beating inferno, is there even a point in continuing to play a game that's no longer fun? ---------------------- ---------------------- Face it, this game is dying. People are leaving in droves after running through the game and reaching max level. This game is just too dumbed down and too badly designed to have enough replayability to support it for the years to come in the same way D2 did. This isn't an action "RPG", this is an action beat-em-up - this is Gauntlet Legends online. And don't you dare think that any of these issues are because "an ARPG can't do well in modern times". It can. And it's a darn shame that it very well could have, had Blizzard not hired that clown of a director Jay Wilson who ran the series into the ground. I'm done with D3, and my respect for Blizzard has suffered a large blow. Somewhere along the way, Blizzard simply lost respect for their customers, and it's just not right." Last edited by Zeltak#4159 on Jun 14, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
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" I read that entire post (which I believe was on the D3 forums, was it not?) and the line right there is the single biggest reason I have converted from D3 to PoE. Truth be told, I did not feel that D3 was a "bad" game. I thought it was a mediocre game, a time-waster, an unfinished product, and a money sink that I didn't need. I bought a new graphics card *just for D3*. I took some of my vacation time *just for D3*. I respected the company ever since opening and playing Warcraft 2, a game I bought with my first PC. I had hoped that Blizzard, as a company, would equally respect its player base and give the players the type of game they could expect. Look at Starcraft 2, for example. Starcraft 2 is Starcraft... with prettier graphics, a better UI, a continuation of the story, and a few game play improvements. That... is a sequel. That's exactly what a sequel should be. Nothing more, nothing less. Diablo 3 has prettier graphics, a continuation of the story, a UI that is only a slight improvement of the past and in some ways is worse, but the game play, the most important part, lost a lot in the transition. Unfortunately, all of the reasons that the game play was lost here seemed to be business moves. Be it how the game is focused on the AH and RMAH, or how the game was seemingly rushed before certain elements had been tested, or how those parts that were advertised or in D2 that we wanted were scrapped in favor of a "simpler" approach, or how the devs and PR representative don't even make any effort to appeasing the masses, or even apologizing. All of those issues are poor business decisions that garner a bad rapport between the customers and the company. This is why I don't like Diablo 3. It's not even because the game is flawed--all games are flawed. I just wish that the flaws were all because of conscious developer decisions which were *originally designed* to make a fun experience, rather than mug 7 million customers, beat them with an Auction House, and then piss on them when they're down by releasing hotfixes and patches that don't improve upon the existing game at all. Alteration Orb Union Local #7
I'll smash your nose with 20 Alterations before I'll sell them for 1 lousy Chaos. 16:1. No questions. |
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" Let us not confuse 'beta' with 'demo' here. There is no way you can say that 2 almost complete acts with 4 difficulty levels, all 6 classes and over 70 functioning active skills is a 'demo'. Path of Exile is in beta and will remain in beta for quite some time because it is an evolving creation -- it's very hard to say 'this is the finished product' when you're regularly adding and modifying content. A demo, on the other hand, is a much shorter experience, usually not subject to regular patching, released to the *public* to give them a taste of what the final product will be like. That is not what Path of Exile is right now. Certainly, it has changed form over each significant patch, but to say that we 'don't even know how PoE will be' based on its beta status is sheer folly. If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.
I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. |
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" I agree 100% with this statement. Nothing is perfect, even if it's perfect for you. Path of Exile happens to be perfect for my needs as an ARPG junkie, but it's far from a perfect product. GGG are more aware of this than anyone, I am certain. And D3 isn't for me. I've stated why elsewhere. I do not disparage anyone who feels otherwise and enjoys it. It's SO easy to avoid being a fanboy/fangirl. You just have to keep some perspective and judge things not only as they compare to others, but in and of themselves. And always, always be willing to acknowledge the flaws. Because everything has them. If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.
I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. |
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" Yeah, I agree with a lot of the points there, especially the aesthetic ones or the issue about feeling way too powerful too early. Others I don't, for example the many complaints about not having things that were in D2X before looking at what gets added in the D3 expansion(s). To me that seems like an unfair comparison. And some just don't make sense for our purposes here (complaining about online only). The guy's original question was, "if I like D3, will I like PoE?" And I think the answer is a qualified "yes." But I don't think you're gonna conclusively prove that D3 is a terrible game and convince everyone to hate it, I don't think doing so is necessary to explain to someone the pros and cons of D3 versus PoE, and I think spending your time doing so is counterproductive to getting people to love this game. If D3's my first ARPG, virtually none of what you quoted matters at all when it comes to checking out PoE and evaluating it versus what I know. Edit: And, maybe more importantly, it's hard to give someone a good welcome/discussion if your opinion is that the game they had fun with is total shit with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Try to see what others might like about it rather than all the ways it personally offended you. Last edited by karoc#5526 on Jun 15, 2012, 12:25:50 AM
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