Suggested fix for too many runs required to obtain Labyrinth enchantments

Sure, there are some people who run lab all day and profit from it. Yet you don't need anonymous polls to know that is distinct minority of the audience. My point was never about "you", "me", specific build issues with lab. When majority of your players retreat from this content and instead use above-mentioned alternate methods to gain enchants, that warrants redesign. Not for the sake of my shitty builds, but for average player. And when lab services no longer a thing, you know you fixed it. "Playing" arpg via 3rd party services is not what reasonable developer wants.

GGG occasionally states how they don't care about common design practices and "majority" altogether, instead being comfortable with fewer hardcore nolifers who enjoy being tossed around every league. It is actually interesting to observe if such concept would keep them afloat with their Ruthless modes :)

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Echothesis wrote:

Sure, there are some people who run lab all day and profit from it. Yet you don't need anonymous polls to know that is distinct minority of the audience. My point was never about "you", "me", specific build issues with lab. When majority of your players retreat from this content and instead use above-mentioned alternate methods to gain enchants, that warrants redesign. Not for the sake of my shitty builds, but for average player. And when lab services no longer a thing, you know you fixed it. "Playing" arpg via 3rd party services is not what reasonable developer wants.

GGG occasionally states how they don't care about common design practices and "majority" altogether, instead being comfortable with fewer hardcore nolifers who enjoy being tossed around every league. It is actually interesting to observe if such concept would keep them afloat with their Ruthless modes :)

Nice strawman, majority of players are not delve runners, nor heist or sanctum runners neither, does that means it is bad content? Nope. Why are you even pulling 3rd party service into this? Just go on trade and buy rare with enchant - it is that simple. If you want to make perfect BIS item, then it shouldn't be for average player with 0 effort - you need to put effort to get it.


Sorry if you can't put enchant you desire on legacy item with 0 effort, but that never should be possible (with 0 effort).

You can't get perfect items while doing nothing - this shouldn't change no matter how much you want it.

Sigh. Idk what "delve runner" is, but lab differs from all other content you've listed in not having any intermediate rewards for time wasted there.

lab run: a few basic currency from silver/isaro chests, and 0.001% chance of getting desired enchant (or tainted blessing).

run of other content will give you much more in terms of loot and exp, before that content's unique rewards if any. Average player always prefers to run the most profitable content he can handle.

Yet still everyone want enchantments and now there are other ways to get them, all good. Question: what is the point of still having lab in the game as repeatable content? Isn't it a waste of some dev effort, creating something obsolete?

You don't have to answer me on this, but answer yourself: why exactly are you so opposed to idea of having more options at the font per run? Afraid of more players progressing successfully? No one spoke of "0 effort" here except you, but now lab takes too much time for too small gain, compared to other content. 3rd party service is just an indication of this disparity.

To be on the constructive side, another option is to allow using scarabs in the lab, and adjust the tileset to include other league content, so running lab would be similar to running a map

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Echothesis wrote:

Sigh. Idk what "delve runner" is, but lab differs from all other content you've listed in not having any intermediate rewards for time wasted there.

Same as heist differs, breachstone farm differs, invitation farm differs. If you count only divines as reward, then you're the one limiting the content for yourself. Can we be done with this kind of strawman arguments?

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Echothesis wrote:

lab run: a few basic currency from silver/isaro chests, and 0.001% chance of getting desired enchant (or tainted blessing).

thats a wrong math right there, make it x20 to be exact

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Echothesis wrote:

run of other content will give you much more in terms of loot and exp, before that content's unique rewards if any. Average player always prefers to run the most profitable content he can handle.

No problem, they can run other content if they want to, noone force them to anything. If divine/hour is most important for you, then let it be that way.

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Echothesis wrote:

Yet still everyone want enchantments and now there are other ways to get them, all good. Question: what is the point of still having lab in the game as repeatable content? Isn't it a waste of some dev effort, creating something obsolete?

How is that a waste of dev effort if it is already done? And if people want enchant, they can get enchanted rares from trade, legion, blight, incubators, metamorph, heist or syndicate. If they want it on bis helmet - then it is a cherry on top and will require some work. Or they can go on forum and complain than game require effort from them.

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Echothesis wrote:

You don't have to answer me on this, but answer yourself: why exactly are you so opposed to idea of having more options at the font per run? Afraid of more players progressing successfully? No one spoke of "0 effort" here except you, but now lab takes too much time for too small gain, compared to other content. 3rd party service is just an indication of this disparity.

You already have 8 rolls each with 3 options, that 16 in total.



Your options are:
1. Buy rare item with enchant and craft what you want
2. get rare with enchant from legion, blight, incubators, metamorph, heist or syndicate (or whatever else that drop enchanted helmets)
3. chance the unique with enchant
4. get enchanted helmets from cards
5. learn how to run the lab
6. buy the item
7. hire lab runner
8. hire carry
9. or you can go with 9. go on forum, complain, hope GGG will give enchants for free but it will mostly lead to 10.
10. don't get the enchant

and I don't even know why you bring divine/hour argument as any form of indicator to anything here.

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Echothesis wrote:

lab run: a few basic currency from silver/isaro chests, and 0.001% chance of getting desired enchant (or tainted blessing).

Well...you also ignore the tens of other enchants that you can run into that would turn a profit for you, and a pretty steep profit at that. Getting a good reservation enchant, or a good enchant for other popular builds can instantly net you a decent amount of divines, provided you go into the lab with bases to use.

Grab some extra t1 helmets and t1 boots (fractured if possible), you can very nearly profit on EVERY run of the lab. It's just not a fun way to do it for most folks, but it CAN be done.

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TemjinGold wrote:

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Hosshiun wrote:

Can't we just get an item drop that rolls a random enchant? Ichors and embers exist, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Incubator.

Not quite the same thing, is it?
As people so eloquently keep saying, there are many options to get equipment that has a lab enchant already, but no items to roll for an enchant on a piece of equipment you already own.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Well...you also ignore the tens of other enchants that you can run into that would turn a profit for you, and a pretty steep profit at that. Getting a good reservation enchant, or a good enchant for other popular builds can instantly net you a decent amount of divines, provided you go into the lab with bases to use.

Grab some extra t1 helmets and t1 boots (fractured if possible), you can very nearly profit on EVERY run of the lab. It's just not a fun way to do it for most folks, but it CAN be done.

It's not about profit, most people just want a useful enchant and be done with it.

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TemjinGold wrote:

OP: You seem to think GGG wants to make enchants more accessible. They don't.

It's always frustrating when someone gives the correct answer on the first page and the thread continues for unknown reasons.

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Echothesis wrote:

Lvl 75 traps may be weak, but lvl 83 are dangerous for me, as I hate archetypes from left side of the tree and always have problems with raw phys mitigation on the right-top side.

Degens from traps are much easier if you spec "Lethe Shade" and use Arakaali & Ralakesh Pantheons. If you got these on a fast build you dont really need any other phys mitigation vs degen traps (in Gift to the Goddess). You probably still want either armour or life flask/s if you get chopped or spiked though.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

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TemjinGold wrote:

OP: You seem to think GGG wants to make enchants more accessible. They don't.

It's always frustrating when someone gives the correct answer on the first page and the thread continues for unknown reasons.

What's the point of having a forum if we can't whine a little about things we dislike?