The removal of ALL aura specific mastery reservation nodes ruined the league for me

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Nomancs wrote:

Most of your list are just fillers, not relevant nerfes (like flasks, we do the piano same as before, maybe with a lil bit more consideration sometimes), or me leap slamming whole map in seconds - where is that movement skill nerf? respect me a little bit more, friend.

If you're saying that cheap exarch/eater items that bring my molten strike extra fire dmg and dmg on marked enemies and that bring nothing to the table because there are some other influenced items that don't bring mods used by this build, then I'm not sure we have a common ground at all here.

And yet, despite all those nerfs, old "one digit in mlns" dps builds that were good 10 leagues ago are now considered to be not enough, because people do "three digits mlns" builds?
100x higher dps than before is no powercreep? Arn't people insta deleting bosses?

Sure it's small stuff for the most part. But there is a lot of it, the list there isn't even complete and there is plenty of not so small things in that list as well. While the list on the other end is distinctly short.

Sure there are build out there who can gain something out of eldritch implicits that might not have been there before, but the opposite can be said just as much. Even if we count them as powercreep, it still fades in comparison.

Regarding your last paragraph, your perspective is off there. Yes, back in 3.13 you could get away with way less dps than now and still have a good time. It was considered "enough" but that doesn't mean that there weren't 3 digit million builds back then. They just weren't neccessary, while now they are.

With every passing league more player power gets removed or shifted from gems/tree to gear. The level of gear you need to "beat the game" increases every season, but that's not so much the ceiling going higher, just the floor getting raised non stop. Back in 3.13 you could make builds that were even more powerful than most stuff you can make now using harvest but the tip of the endgame back then was sim 20 and the feared. What cute little things those are compared to what we are expected to beat now.

The lower limit keeps rising, thankfully for GGG large parts of the player base keeps deluding themselves acting like POEs endgame in 2023 is the same it was in 2018 while ignoring the fact that they hurt themselves that way because the game is no longer balanced around doing that outdated content.

For me personally, this isn't even about the game getting harder. It's plenty easy enough, even if they cut our damage and defenses further in half from here it would be just fine for me.
But for one, i've been around for 5 years come and go and am fairly adapt at the game to say the least, that's why i can handle it without issues. Plenty of other people can't and just keep falling further and further behind.

Second, and this is imo the important point. Even if it's still doable/easy, this ongoing situation is simply no fun at all. Every league we just keep playing inferior versions of the builds from last league tackling buffed up content from last league. It's likely due to POE2 but fact is, ever since 3.13 there were barely any new gems, hardly any of the new league contents went core, basically nothing got buffed in relevant amounts it's just a never ending parade of loss after loss after loss in a game that's supposed to be about hype and power.
How many unique items that were "bottom tier but usable to clear all content" are even remotely usable now? Basically just the mageblood rarity stuff and things dropping from pinnacle/uber bosses with 2% chances, rest is for the dumbster.
How many new builds have emerged at the top of the meta since 3.15? As far as i can remember it's mostly been Cyclone CoC, Seismic, RF, LS and TS ever since. There was lightning conduit for one league and we had the abomination of TR champs in 3.16 but that's pretty much it.

Sure we can just cope with it and move on "adapt and overcome" as they say, it's no sweat. But what for? Is it even fun to keep doing that under these conditions? For me the answer is pretty clear. My playtime has dropped constantly ever since 3.14, i've skipped 2 leagues entirely since then and barely played in sanctum because there is just no reason to play anymore, no new input just nerfs. Death by a thousand scratches.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

With every passing league more player power gets removed or shifted from gems/tree to gear. The level of gear you need to "beat the game" increases every season, but that's not so much the ceiling going higher, just the floor getting raised non stop. Back in 3.13 you could make builds that were even more powerful than most stuff you can make now using harvest but the tip of the endgame back then was sim 20 and the feared. What cute little things those are compared to what we are expected to beat now.

Well that's the thing, are we really expected to? And how many of us if so, because it can't possibly be all of us. You say that experienced players have no issues and the average joe can't keep up with that, maybe the average joe is supposed to go after the cute little things. There's no shortage of profitable content outside of uber bosses.

As for myself, I kinda feel better about the game now that I got a good grasp on how much GGG is capable, or rather willing to do. As a result, I don't feel particularly insulted with patch notes, there's always something good and something bad in them and you can always play something and do something.
I've been at this for a long time and can't be expected to put a lot of hours in it anymore, but I've played a good bit back in 3.15 because I liked the build and the league was great. This league I didn't like the mechanic much, but the build was fun so I've had some time in it, can't remember when was the last time I was a few maps short of full atlas.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Regarding your last paragraph, your perspective is off there. Yes, back in 3.13 you could get away with way less dps than now and still have a good time. It was considered "enough" but that doesn't mean that there weren't 3 digit million builds back then. They just weren't neccessary, while now they are.

I disagree, you can do same thing you did in 3.13 with same amount of dps, people nowadays just get used to have multimillion dps builds and that become so common, that now it is perceieved as mandatory by some - why play X mln dps if you could play XXX mln dps? Everyone plays XXX mln. This is pure proof of how big powercreep is, how multimillion dps builds are common in use. Same goes with influenced items, leagues ago such items were used by best players, now everyone have them. Not because they're required, but because they're more common and easier to get.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

With every passing league more player power gets removed or shifted from gems/tree to gear. The level of gear you need to "beat the game" increases every season, but that's not so much the ceiling going higher, just the floor getting raised non stop. Back in 3.13 you could make builds that were even more powerful than most stuff you can make now using harvest but the tip of the endgame back then was sim 20 and the feared. What cute little things those are compared to what we are expected to beat now.

That is not true about requirements. Requirements are same, just great items are a lot more common. We're getting more and more gear, gems, exp every league. Game become easier and easier. My molten strike got 5x stronger than it used to be 10 leagues ago. This is a proof of powercreep enough for me.
And it is fine if power comes from items, that is the reason to minmax things, if power would come mostly from character, level 100 would be mandatory, but it isn't and I hope, GGG will never focus power around character level.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

For me personally, this isn't even about the game getting harder. It's plenty easy enough, even if they cut our damage and defenses further in half from here it would be just fine for me.
But for one, i've been around for 5 years come and go and am fairly adapt at the game to say the least, that's why i can handle it without issues. Plenty of other people can't and just keep falling further and further behind.

Again, I'm playing every league and game is getting easier every league, some minor nerfs happen, but overall powercreep we get is bigger every time. New builds emerge, stronger than ever. If you're falling further and further behind it isn't because of the game I'm afraid, my friend.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Second, and this is imo the important point. Even if it's still doable/easy, this ongoing situation is simply no fun at all. Every league we just keep playing inferior versions of the builds from last league tackling buffed up content from last league. It's likely due to POE2 but fact is, ever since 3.13 there were barely any new gems, hardly any of the new league contents went core, basically nothing got buffed in relevant amounts it's just a never ending parade of loss after loss after loss in a game that's supposed to be about hype and power.
How many unique items that were "bottom tier but usable to clear all content" are even remotely usable now? Basically just the mageblood rarity stuff and things dropping from pinnacle/uber bosses with 2% chances, rest is for the dumbster.

I don't know how many "bottom tier" uniques can be used to clear endgame - probably a lot of them. First I can think of is Belt of the Deceiver. I used it on my molten strike to kill Uber Shaper, because this belt is great! Question is - how many of those uniques have you checked for possible builds?

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Baharoth15 wrote:

How many new builds have emerged at the top of the meta since 3.15? As far as i can remember it's mostly been Cyclone CoC, Seismic, RF, LS and TS ever since. There was lightning conduit for one league and we had the abomination of TR champs in 3.16 but that's pretty much it.

BA, SRS, CG, PC, SM, CoDD and probably more, and this is just from top of my head after 5sec of thinking what was great.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Sure we can just cope with it and move on "adapt and overcome" as they say, it's no sweat. But what for? Is it even fun to keep doing that under these conditions? For me the answer is pretty clear. My playtime has dropped constantly ever since 3.14, i've skipped 2 leagues entirely since then and barely played in sanctum because there is just no reason to play anymore, no new input just nerfs. Death by a thousand scratches.

For what? To enjoy of tinkering new ways, not spending eternity in apathy playing one build over and over again. Is it fun to play PoE? For me answer is also pretty clear, that is why I'm still on the forum. If there would be only buffs, I would call this game "Path of Diablo 3" and play something else.


You can't deny that powercreep is here, average dps is higher every league, but bosses stay unchanged. The conclusion is - nerfs don't compensate for the huge amount of powercreep we get.

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raics wrote:

There's no shortage of profitable content outside of uber bosses.

No, there isn't. At least not looking from an efficiency perspective. Running pinnacle bosses means throwing money out of the window. The invitations are priced based on the uber versions, if you can't farm those then you just make losses by running it and are better of selling it. Same with Simulacrums and all the other stuff. Even maps, why run alch and go compared to 100% deli maps? Doing Pinnacle bosses in 2023 is like, yeah i know, it's like playing melee right? So obviously that's a bad thing to do, right? Right.

The question whether we are supposed to do it, the first paragraph basically answers that for me. If you make a loss by not doing it that means you are supposed to do it. If they really wanted that stuff to be "Aspirational" they wouldn't gate important drops behind them and they would give them their own fragments to not distort the prices but they aren't doing that so that's that. If you, like so many others, are content to remain stuck in 2018 while others make bank playing in 2023 then that's good for you. I alos don't care all that much about it either but if asked whether this is a good and enjoyable situation to be in then my answer is no.

@ Nomancs looks like our perception of the situation is fundamentally different on this matter so let's just agree to disagree here.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

@ Nomancs looks like our perception of the situation is fundamentally different on this matter so let's just agree to disagree here.

I agree. Don't forget to send me PM from time to time, friend.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Even maps, why run alch and go compared to 100% deli maps?

Because you can't, don't care, don't want, because it's sunday or because allah forbids it. That doesn't matter, my question was doesn't that mean you're fucked? I don't think so.
Your question is what should one do if they can't keep up, and the obvious answer is don't keep up then. Playing PoE doesn't mean you married someone 20 years younger so you have to dress like you're a kid again and go clubbing, you can still go fishing like you used to, assuming the fishing rod drops of course.

No, i never asked a question. I made a statement. That statement being: "An ARPG that goes for powerloss instead of powercreep over long durations of time stops being fun at some point." POE has mostly reached this point for me and a lot of other people and obviously we aren't exactly happy about that. So we complain. You are free to disagree i honestly couldn't care less.

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raics wrote:

I'll go on a limb here and ask - was stacking auras even any fun in the first place?

If I had to guess the reason, they probably gave us cheaper defensive/utility auras for the cost of one mastery because people like big numbers too much. Now people saw the value and got into the habit of using them, they really did, last time I checked determination had 70% use rate at high level. In softcore. That's pretty amazing, but also kinda ridiculous, so I assume they will now check if the same auras stay popular and decide if defense really should be cheaper or not.

Yes, it was fun, because there are a bunch of people who don't want to manage buffs. Most builds use 1 primary attack skill, and Auras are easy to support that. Defensive Guard skills all share cooldowns, what else are you supposed to use your gem slots on if not auras?

I just want to jump around a map and attack things, I'm not interested in cursing a bunch of mobs, managing warcries, dropping totems in front of every rare; I just want to attack stuff and build up more passives to support that.

I like the more Auto-Attack playstyle you will find in games like League/Dota, using auras makes the gameplay smoother and more enjoyable since I can focus on what I want to do and not spamming 6 skills all the time.

GGG seems to consider this playstyle antithetical to their Vision.

Edit: What I don't seem to see anyone mentioning is that Auras are RELIABLE, they are always on. I am not particularly interested in temporary or conditional buffs when it comes to my defense.

If you don't want people using Auras, What Else Should They Be Using?

Yeah i agree bossing sucks. There's no point in running regular keys as their market value is determined by uber variant - as that uses the same key. Running regulars is fear of missing out - and in this case, you're actually missing out.

Simulacrums though? They were like 40c each for past 2 leagues, they break even as early as wave 10. If you can make it to 20 you're always profiting. Obviously making it to the end increases your div per hour, but at least you're not gambling away your currency - you're progressing (albeit slower). Same with red maps. If you run alch and go with alch and go oriented atlas tree you will never lose currency, as a red map is worth like what, 5 chaos? Not very much, map sustain haven't been a problem for years.

You don't HAVE TO run 100% delirium with winged scarabs to make money. And thank fuck for that, it would be horrible if this wasn't the case.

Bossing though - yeah, that is borked. If you can't kill the uber version just sell the invitation.

Don't see the difference tbh. Even with bossing you'll easily break even or make at least some profit if you go for pinnacle bosses. Most of the valuable stuff can drop from them just as well as from ubers after all. The issue here is opportunity cost, not actual loss.