Nerf fest is coming

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I hope you guys are looking forward to picking up every weapon in the game that drops, and then heading over to quarry to see the tree.

This sounds absolutely horrific, but the only way to check if a weapon might have the passives you would want to combine, or currency you would want to sell for.

Edit: the only way to combat this nightmare would be to identify the tree levels as you go, but that was definitely not how it was shown.

As I said in the post you quoted, we simply don't understand what it looks like at end game. Also, in general if something is overly cumbersome, they fix/change things by the 2nd or 3rd week. That's why I generally advise people who don't care about league start to wait because the league tends to be more stable by that point with more accurate balancing and patches to relieve overly stupid things.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I hope you guys are looking forward to picking up every weapon in the game that drops, and then heading over to quarry to see the tree.

This sounds absolutely horrific, but the only way to check if a weapon might have the passives you would want to combine, or currency you would want to sell for.

Edit: the only way to combat this nightmare would be to identify the tree levels as you go, but that was definitely not how it was shown.

I can imaging the especial joy if you get a really good rare passive on a poor base type (assuming you still even view these).
And then do you want to merge it with something much better, and hope you get the right base type out (I'm not going to sit through the vids again but I think you could mix within a base type, e.g any two claws, it was only uniques which had to be the exact same thing?).

Recombinators were op even though it was also not exactly easy to get a very powerful result.

This league mechanic is 99,999999% bound to be very very powerful at least for the players that play a lot. it will be a net win i suspect once you are in the very endgame, but on the way it might feel a little or quite a bit rougher.

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Nubatron wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I hope you guys are looking forward to picking up every weapon in the game that drops, and then heading over to quarry to see the tree.

This sounds absolutely horrific, but the only way to check if a weapon might have the passives you would want to combine, or currency you would want to sell for.

Edit: the only way to combat this nightmare would be to identify the tree levels as you go, but that was definitely not how it was shown.

As I said in the post you quoted, we simply don't understand what it looks like at end game. Also, in general if something is overly cumbersome, they fix/change things by the 2nd or 3rd week. That's why I generally advise people who don't care about league start to wait because the league tends to be more stable by that point with more accurate balancing and patches to relieve overly stupid things.

I have no idea what they are going to do either, that's true, but this is so obviously glaring I don't know how it gets developed without understanding how players will interact. I mean a weapon drops, and isn't the obvious question "hmm I wonder what it's passive tree is". How in the world was that fundamentl question not asked in development?

It's not that you will only be choosing weapons for your build you might use, it's literally all of them due to currency and passive combinations. This is a MAJOR oversight, and the only solution I see is to dramatically cut efficiency which the players won't like either. This is going to be very rough imo when hitting maps.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I have no idea what they are going to do either, that's true, but this is so obviously glaring I don't know how it gets developed without understanding how players will interact. I mean a weapon drops, and isn't the obvious question "hmm I wonder what it's passive tree is". How in the world was that fundamental question not asked in development?

It's not that you will only be choosing weapons for your class you might use, it's literally all of them due to currency and passive combinations. This is a MAJOR oversight, and the only solution I see is to dramatically cut efficiency which the players won't like either. This is going to be very rough imo when hitting maps.

The forge seemed to pour the bottom item into the bottom, but it wasn't clear to me if it always maintained the bottom weapon as the base. My assumption is it does because otherwise you're rerolling or backdooring into recombinators for weapons.

If the weapon stats/type don't matter and won't impact the final outcome of the weapon it is forged with, then I agree that there will initially be an issue with wanting to see all passive trees on an item.

If the base does matter and/or rolls get mixed, then it won't be about identifying everything that drops. I honestly think it will be a while before people are doing this efficiently and intelligently. The most likely outcome is people will trade for the passives they want at late game.

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Nubatron wrote:

then I agree that there will initially be an issue with wanting to see all passive trees on an item.

If the base does matter and/or rolls get mixed, then it won't be about identifying everything that drops. I honestly think it will be a while before people are doing this efficiently and intelligently

When would you not want to know whats on the passive tree? You would always want to see.

"Oh hey that dagger has 30 chaos orbs", or "that Bow has 2 Divine orbs!", or "wow that scepter has +1 max power charges, wtf!"

Or the fomo of that weapon you skipped having a mirror or some insane passive...

Idk man, this seems super stressful and annoying.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I have no idea what they are going to do either, that's true, but this is so obviously glaring I don't know how it gets developed without understanding how players will interact. I mean a weapon drops, and isn't the obvious question "hmm I wonder what it's passive tree is". How in the world was that fundamental question not asked in development?

That question depends on another question and that's "are crucible skills strong enough to make a crap rare strong?" If the answer is no, then it doesn't matter if you can see it right away or not, the process is the same, you first have to find a good rare, then you check the tree and see if that makes it even better. If you think that's too much work, ask yourself how many good weapons you found last league.

That's also the reason why uniques need a rarely occurring extra step to see their tree. Unlike good rare weapons, they're much more plentiful so they need a more rarely occurring extra step and you'll only try to check the most valuable ones. They did think about all this.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

then I agree that there will initially be an issue with wanting to see all passive trees on an item.

If the base does matter and/or rolls get mixed, then it won't be about identifying everything that drops. I honestly think it will be a while before people are doing this efficiently and intelligently

When would you not want to know whats on the passive tree? You would always want to see.

"Oh hey that dagger has 30 chaos orbs", or "that Bow has 2 Divine orbs!", or "wow that scepter has +1 max power charges, wtf!"

Or the fomo of that weapon you skipped having a mirror or some insane passive...

Idk man, this seems super stressful and annoying.

That's already there today with the tons of rares that drop. Anyone who suffers from that FOMO anxiety is already in pain.

My gut feeling is the tree will be viewable on identification. If not immediately at league launch, then later when they realize going to forge just for try, for see and for know is not a great gameplay experience.

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raics wrote:

That question depends on another question and that's "are crucible skills strong enough to make a crap rare strong?" If the answer is no, then it doesn't matter if you can see it right away or not, the process is the same, you first have to find a good rare, then you check the tree and see if that makes it even better. If you think that's too much work, ask yourself how many good weapons you found last league.

That's also the reason why uniques need a rarely occurring extra step to see their tree. Unlike good rare weapons, they're much more plentiful so they need a more rarely occurring extra step and you'll only try to check the most valuable ones. They did think about all this.

Even if it was strong enough your weapon becomes dependent on the skill tree instead of the the damage of the weapon. Also it seems like you have to unlock each weapon skill tree kind of like incubators.

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raics wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I have no idea what they are going to do either, that's true, but this is so obviously glaring I don't know how it gets developed without understanding how players will interact. I mean a weapon drops, and isn't the obvious question "hmm I wonder what it's passive tree is". How in the world was that fundamental question not asked in development?

That question depends on another question and that's "are crucible skills strong enough to make a crap rare strong?" If the answer is no, then it doesn't matter if you can see it right away or not, the process is the same, you first have to find a good rare, then you check the tree and see if that makes it even better. If you think that's too much work, ask yourself how many good weapons you found last league.

That's also the reason why uniques need a rarely occurring extra step to see their tree. Unlike good rare weapons, they're much more plentiful so they need a more rarely occurring extra step and you'll only try to check the most valuable ones. They did think about all this.

That totally misses the fact that currency items appear that you can sell (and uniques xfers), and also strong passives that appear on a similar base that you can recombine. This isn't a case of only picking up only bows if you are playing LA ranger for example.