Nerf fest is coming

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raics wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I have no idea what they are going to do either, that's true, but this is so obviously glaring I don't know how it gets developed without understanding how players will interact. I mean a weapon drops, and isn't the obvious question "hmm I wonder what it's passive tree is". How in the world was that fundamental question not asked in development?

That question depends on another question and that's "are crucible skills strong enough to make a crap rare strong?" If the answer is no, then it doesn't matter if you can see it right away or not, the process is the same, you first have to find a good rare, then you check the tree and see if that makes it even better. If you think that's too much work, ask yourself how many good weapons you found last league.

That's also the reason why uniques need a rarely occurring extra step to see their tree. Unlike good rare weapons, they're much more plentiful so they need a more rarely occurring extra step and you'll only try to check the most valuable ones. They did think about all this.

That totally misses the fact that currency items appear that you can sell (and uniques xfers), and also strong passives that appear on a similar base that you can recombine. This isn't a case of only picking up only bows if you are playing LA ranger for example.

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Nubatron wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

then I agree that there will initially be an issue with wanting to see all passive trees on an item.

If the base does matter and/or rolls get mixed, then it won't be about identifying everything that drops. I honestly think it will be a while before people are doing this efficiently and intelligently

When would you not want to know whats on the passive tree? You would always want to see.

"Oh hey that dagger has 30 chaos orbs", or "that Bow has 2 Divine orbs!", or "wow that scepter has +1 max power charges, wtf!"

Or the fomo of that weapon you skipped having a mirror or some insane passive...

Idk man, this seems super stressful and annoying.

That's already there today with the tons of rares that drop. Anyone who suffers from that FOMO anxiety is already in pain.

My gut feeling is the tree will be viewable on identification. If not immediately at league launch, then later when they realize going to forge just for try, for see and for know is not a great gameplay experience.

That's not fair, you can't turn rares today into currency or uniques by leveling. Sure maybe on affixes but you couldn't combine them. This is a whole new thing.

And even if they did change to the identify process as you stated (which maybe), that still means you are picking up every applicable item, ID'ing them, and then checking the tree. If people think 8 second charging is bad at the forge, wait until they are spamming wisdom scrolls as they map!

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That's not fair, you can't turn rares today into currency or uniques by leveling. Sure maybe on affixes but you couldn't combine them. This is a whole new thing.

And even if they did change to the identify process as you stated (which maybe), that still means you are picking up every applicable item, ID'ing them, and then checking the tree. If people think 8 second charging is bad at the forge, wait until they are spamming wisdom scrolls as they map!

I don't think a lot of people will be doing it the way you described. It's still FOMO. Every pot and chest has the potential to be a mirror or Mageblood. Do people get anxiety about it? Maybe some people do, but that feels like the extreme exception.

The more realistic gameplay loop is picking up things as you normally would and identifying bases that have potential to be worth something beyond just some random luck on the tree. It will be about zoom as it always has been, for better or worse, because moving fast identifying the most valuable potential drops will likely present the most value per session.

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Nubatron wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That's not fair, you can't turn rares today into currency or uniques by leveling. Sure maybe on affixes but you couldn't combine them. This is a whole new thing.

And even if they did change to the identify process as you stated (which maybe), that still means you are picking up every applicable item, ID'ing them, and then checking the tree. If people think 8 second charging is bad at the forge, wait until they are spamming wisdom scrolls as they map!

I don't think a lot of people will be doing it the way you described. It's still FOMO. Every pot and chest has the potential to be a mirror or Mageblood. Do people get anxiety about it? Maybe some people do, but that feels like the extreme exception.

Really? You are comparing the Crucible trees to pots?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Really? You are comparing the Crucible trees to pots?

Without a doubt, yes.

You referenced valuable currency and very very rare uniques. The chances of those appearing in the tree are going to be exceptionally low and I don't need access to the game to know that will 100% be the case. I've played the game for over a decade and have found exactly zero Mirror of Kalandras yet that was your example.

Sure, they showed in reveal a Soul Taker being available for vendoring, but what will really happen is we get a ton of Lifesprig and Armourer's Scraps equivalents because that's what always happens. Every reveal since I started playing this showed something that I will never touch during the league. It's a bad faith reveal that we fall for every single league to create false hype. This is no different.

So just like every pot and chest in the game can have a Mageblood, you're not going to find it any more efficiently through identifying everything than just playing the game fast and it randomly happens as you play.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That's not fair, you can't turn rares today into currency or uniques by leveling. Sure maybe on affixes but you couldn't combine them. This is a whole new thing.

And even if they did change to the identify process as you stated (which maybe), that still means you are picking up every applicable item, ID'ing them, and then checking the tree. If people think 8 second charging is bad at the forge, wait until they are spamming wisdom scrolls as they map!

You wont be spamming wisdom scrolls as you map. Its only id'ing one or two weapons per map.

The only thing that worries me is having to use TFT (which i don'T) to buy/sell weapons with a good tree... I am gladly picking up a couple of extra items with potential, i would play a different game if i would feel otherwise...

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Thesuffering wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That's not fair, you can't turn rares today into currency or uniques by leveling. Sure maybe on affixes but you couldn't combine them. This is a whole new thing.

And even if they did change to the identify process as you stated (which maybe), that still means you are picking up every applicable item, ID'ing them, and then checking the tree. If people think 8 second charging is bad at the forge, wait until they are spamming wisdom scrolls as they map!

You wont be spamming wisdom scrolls as you map. Its only id'ing one or two weapons per map.

Why? Why wouldn't you check the trees for valuable nodes? Like any weapon that had a rare unique associated with it? It will become that if you don't check every Siege axe, you are dumb.

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Strickl3r wrote:

The only thing that worries me is having to use TFT (which i don'T) to buy/sell weapons with a good tree... I am gladly picking up a couple of extra items with potential, i would play a different game if i would feel otherwise...

I suspect you'll be able to use the trade site eventually. I don't love his comment about 3rd party being able to do it better through the API though. That didn't inspire confidence.

Hopefully the trade site dev has a lot of inspiration on how to present the data and it is easy to filter/find what you want.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That totally misses the fact that currency items appear that you can sell (and uniques xfers), and also strong passives that appear on a similar base that you can recombine. This isn't a case of only picking up only bows if you are playing LA ranger for example.

It isn't really a factor, not many weapon bases have a unique that's worth the time you may invest in unlocking the transformation node. I don't think that stockpiling rares with good passives for recombination will be a thing either, you might do it if you already have a really good rare with an iffy tree.

About currency reward, dunno how rare it will be, but if the tree was visible you might have a lot of currency uniques sitting in your stash and waiting to be unlocked because you're working on a good rare. And if you're lucky with rares you'd keep postponing the currency weapons that you're picking up.
On the flip side, if you can't see the trees, you'd look for random uniques to unlock only if you don't have anything you're working on, so they can make rewards more common.

Or we're all terribly underestimating how much time unlocking a rare fully will take and none of this matters.