Tried PoE after D4's first beta weekend

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jdp29 wrote:

And all these virtues of PoE that you are extolling are exactly why it is held back and is a niche product. Honestly, it doesn't have to be this way, at all. Hell, just making Act 1/2 more player friendly, toning down Brutus will help a lot. Why gatekeep players at Brutus if the game will get easier the rest of the way? Removing his adds was a stupid move as it makes it very difficult to fight with no flask regen, and that in and of itself is messed up, as Brutus is one of the few if only fight in the campaign that doesn't have adds for flask regen. Why gatekeep on that guy? Same with that guy turrets you with ice attacks in the second zone. Why leave him there? Players don't learn anything from him, as there's no other enemy AI that does that afaik.

Add more tutorials for Blight/Metamorph, etc so the players doesn't get overwhelmed with it. Or at least inform the player there's no harm in ignoring mechanics, or better yet, give the player an option to never see them until they want to. (Yes, it comes in Atlas, probably too late, as most folks who reach Atlas aren't overwhelmed)

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anti4z500 wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I wasn't going to post in yet another D4 thread, but there is some ridiculous misinformation going around, and in general it's not even on scale when comparing a brand new game, that isnt even out yet (with live service coming), to one that's been established for over a decade. Why isn't PoE, if it's such the superior game, doing better in terms of the market? They have had little to no competition for years, and yet they are still fairly niche. This is definitely a case of projection from some of the more hardcore arpg enthusiasts. Which is fine, if they could just realize what they are doing, to at least have some sort of reasonable understanding that not everything needs to be PoE; Whatever that means to you.

For D4, there are 75 levels to go, paragon boards, and paragon board linking, legendary aspects that are not in the beta, and more. We don't even know final affix tiers, and what they will be at endgame. Uniques are build altering, with set items and runewords not even in the game yet. (Plus the leaks on the paragon boards are not accurate as well, and the notables, keystones, and unlock group bonuses are totally unknown, nor how many boards you can link together or if the boards have tiers in terms of rarity and scope. In theory, mathematically, it could be more complex than PoE for this specific game item).

WE DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT DEV BUILD VERSION IS. This by all accounts is the same media / test beta that was provided months ago.

For the endgame content, in addition to 120+ dungeons', there will be Helltides, which are basically D2 terror zones if people are familiar with that, which will make every region in the world relevant on endgame scale. (and region specific loot as well). There are multiple world bosses with individual loot pools, also a PVP flag region, and rotating world events. There will also be seasonal content, which the devs say will be significant in their scope, just like PoE League mechanic.

In general trying to come to anything close to a final conclusion would be like asking someone to review PoE after 8 hours and only letting them get to Merveil. Not to mention when PoE came out of it's closed beta in Jan of 2013, it wasn't even remotely close to D4's size, scope, and polish. Actually PoE was quite messy. If that was someone's expectation, then it's both incredibly dumb, as well as unreasonable.

That said if you like PoE just continue to play PoE. D4 was never trying to be PoE or appeal to the mutliple-hour PoB user and theory crafter, who enjoys reading 15k word manifestos and riding the 3 month meta-train every league. The sheer amount of investment PoE requires of it's players, let alone technical game mechanic mastery, is far beyond what most average gamers are looking for, and most of the metrics reflect that.

i love your copium on diablo :D its like every time som1 mentions diablo you pop up with your insane amount of copium and defend blizz and they games like they a best in a world . Maybe you work for blizz or something :D

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Thesuffering wrote:

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jdp29 wrote:

And all these virtues of PoE that you are extolling are exactly why it is held back and is a niche product. Honestly, it doesn't have to be this way, at all. Hell, just making Act 1/2 more player friendly, toning down Brutus will help a lot. Why gatekeep players at Brutus if the game will get easier the rest of the way? Removing his adds was a stupid move as it makes it very difficult to fight with no flask regen, and that in and of itself is messed up, as Brutus is one of the few if only fight in the campaign that doesn't have adds for flask regen. Why gatekeep on that guy? Same with that guy turrets you with ice attacks in the second zone. Why leave him there? Players don't learn anything from him, as there's no other enemy AI that does that afaik.

Add more tutorials for Blight/Metamorph, etc so the players doesn't get overwhelmed with it. Or at least inform the player there's no harm in ignoring mechanics, or better yet, give the player an option to never see them until they want to. (Yes, it comes in Atlas, probably too late, as most folks who reach Atlas aren't overwhelmed)

You catch more players with honey than vinegar, and a lot of the vinegar in PoE is right at the start of the game and doesn't need to be there.

They made the change a few years back to make the acts harder. On the one hand it makes sense. If you cant beat the butcher relatively easy, then you have a problem with the mechanics. People beat the butch with a bunch of one links on ruthless mode.

The first time i fought the new butcher i died 20 times. But now i die maybe once. If you cant beat Butcher without dying, you will not be able to beat any of the pinnacle bosses.

I still hate acts tho. So *shrugs*.

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jdp29 wrote:

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Thesuffering wrote:

"

jdp29 wrote:

And all these virtues of PoE that you are extolling are exactly why it is held back and is a niche product. Honestly, it doesn't have to be this way, at all. Hell, just making Act 1/2 more player friendly, toning down Brutus will help a lot. Why gatekeep players at Brutus if the game will get easier the rest of the way? Removing his adds was a stupid move as it makes it very difficult to fight with no flask regen, and that in and of itself is messed up, as Brutus is one of the few if only fight in the campaign that doesn't have adds for flask regen. Why gatekeep on that guy? Same with that guy turrets you with ice attacks in the second zone. Why leave him there? Players don't learn anything from him, as there's no other enemy AI that does that afaik.

Add more tutorials for Blight/Metamorph, etc so the players doesn't get overwhelmed with it. Or at least inform the player there's no harm in ignoring mechanics, or better yet, give the player an option to never see them until they want to. (Yes, it comes in Atlas, probably too late, as most folks who reach Atlas aren't overwhelmed)

You catch more players with honey than vinegar, and a lot of the vinegar in PoE is right at the start of the game and doesn't need to be there.

They made the change a few years back to make the acts harder. On the one hand it makes sense. If you cant beat the butcher relatively easy, then you have a problem with the mechanics. People beat the butch with a bunch of one links on ruthless mode.

The first time i fought the new butcher i died 20 times. But now i die maybe once. If you cant beat Butcher without dying, you will not be able to beat any of the pinnacle bosses.

I still hate acts tho. So *shrugs*.

Who cares if you don't have the skill to beat a pinnacle boss at level 8? The player can learn that or just do something else in the game later on. Why is the onboarding process already weeding out those who can't do the hardest content? Why not have a ramp up in difficult instead of this insane spike that doesn't appear again till far far into the game? Why push potential players/customers away like that?

Why punish new players into quitting right there when any sensible dev would remove that punishment so players could keep going? Why get rid of the ability to regain flask charges?

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Thesuffering wrote:

The game really punsishes for major respeccing thats why. I think they need to rework it in a way you can respec until like level 60 and stop after that and make the game easier for newbies.

Of course it will make the acts even more boring for us veterans but if it draws in newer players I wouldnt mind.

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dookleeto wrote:

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Thesuffering wrote:

The game really punsishes for major respeccing thats why. I think they need to rework it in a way you can respec until like level 60 and stop after that and make the game easier for newbies.

Of course it will make the acts even more boring for us veterans but if it draws in newer players I wouldnt mind.

if that was the case, then most characters would use a 'levelling' build that was most efficient, and you would never get the feeling of a build coming together. Sounds awful to me.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I wasn't going to post in yet another D4 thread