I tried the D4 Beta. I think PoE is going to be just fine.

Played the Beta, gotta say that PoE doesn't have much to worry about. I dislike the state of PoE, but hate the Console Port D4 more.

D4 beta has been very fun for me so far but the nature of zone farming to get permanent buffs for your characters seems like a bad idea in a game with quarterly "seasons." You like campaign? How about 100 hours of campaign every league to unlock all your paragon so you can start playing the game!

As it stands I see myself playing Diablo 4 in "standard" mode and not leagues if that ends up being the case at launch. If I have to fill out a battle pass (and pay for it too of course) by doing 300 side quests and dungeons every league I'm just not going to do it beyond the first season.

"

DiabloImmoral wrote:

D4 beta has been very fun for me so far but the nature of zone farming to get permanent buffs for your characters seems like a bad idea in a game with quarterly "seasons." You like campaign? How about 100 hours of campaign every league to unlock all your paragon so you can start playing the game!

As it stands I see myself playing Diablo 4 in "standard" mode and not leagues if that ends up being the case at launch. If I have to fill out a battle pass (and pay for it too of course) by doing 300 side quests and dungeons every league I'm just not going to do it beyond the first season.

You think you'll keep the battle pass buffs into their standard? Just curious.

All im saying: there is literally 0 build theorycraft in d4.

I just refunded. It felt so dull and tedious with literally zero feeling of making any improvement with next levels. And this itemisation - green = good. I would give it a chance but seeing skill tree and lack of any meaningful mechanics - I just don't believe I would spend in this game more like 80 hours, enforcing myself constantly that I'm on the edge of finally achieving satisfaction and miracolosuly discovering any complexity in this game. I'm not a fool, been playing D3. D4 for me is D3.5.

"

Pabulon wrote:

I just refunded. It felt so dull and tedious with literally zero feeling of making any improvement with next levels. And this itemisation - green = good. I would give it a chance but seeing skill tree and lack of any meaningful mechanics - I just don't believe I would spend in this game more like 80 hours, enforcing myself constantly that I'm on the edge of finally achieving satisfaction and miracolosuly discovering any complexity in this game. I'm not a fool, been playing D3. D4 for me is D3.5.

Cause d4 is nothing more but a fast rushed game to cash in some money.
I bet they will release additional "full paid" dlc's soon enough to add a little bit of content/money. Cause why add the content right away as base game if people are stupid enough to pay a couple of hundred dollar for a rushed and unfinished game.
Best example are the last few wow expansions. Pretty much just garbage.
The days of good blizzard games are just over since years.

Just as i predicted. Pathetic d3 remake nothing more..

I actually wouldn't pay even 35 euro for it and not even talking about the insane 69 they as for this game.

It's not worth it.

"

KZA wrote:

Build choice (at least early on) is an illusion. I can make my tele-kick have a 3 second faster cooldown (normally 9 seconds) or i can give it a 1.5 second stun. Both don't make much of a difference, and those are the only two options. Compare that with the many support gems of path of exile, of which you can choose 5 (or more when you get into crafting insane endgame gear). Maybe this expands in the endgame, but the above is all I saw in beta.

Build choice is also an illusion in PoE. Tons of items and skills, yet only a handful of 'meta' builds every league.

"

KZA wrote:

You choose your difficulty. This removes the challenge and instead makes it a question of efficiency. Yeah, I could make the monsters twice as tanky and damaging for 20% more loot and XP, but bonus XP actually just makes monsters even harder. And since it takes longer to kill them, it makes more sense to choose the easier difficulty until you are so strong that you spend more time walking from pack to pack instead of fighting. I suspect it will turn into d3 with literally over 180 meaningless difficulty levels to choose from. PoE and Last Epoch have one difficulty for everything, as it should be.

So PoE doesn't have difficulties... but it has map tier. Not Torment1-16 like Diablo 3 but map tier1-16. Again, another illusion you are in.

"

KZA wrote:

Party-to-win. You get XP and Loot bonuses for playing alongside other players (mmo style), and the bonus doubles if you formally party with them. Not only does synergistic party power out-scale monster power making the game so much easier, the bonus XP and loot make playing solo feel punishing. And when you know the whole reason for the system is to turn players into salesmen for their friends, it feels predatory.

This is a big lol. Apparently you aren't aware that this is also PoE you are talking about.

Can't deny Diablo4 is not for people who love theorycrafting builds or crafting items though.

Designwise, it's almost a 1:1 copy of Diablo Immortal. Immortal was fun, for maybe, a week? Endgame needs to be stellar for Diablo IV to have any longevity. The world is so painfully bland, like Immortal.

GGG can rest peacefully.

"

Nubatron wrote:

Outside of me feeling sad about the Diablo franchise dying for me at D2, it's a good thing D4 is following in the footsteps of D3 in terms of relatively easy itemization and character customization. The genre needs a game to step up into that market space to pull that player base.

When POE started getting D3 refugees, it was obvious in the tone and people pushing to make POE more like D3. This gives that group a place to go to enjoy the type of game they enjoy.

The game does look like it is moving a bit toward MMO rather than ARPG, but it still seems to maintain some ARPG elements -- at least enough to claim the ARPG genre flag. I hope it's closer to D3 than Diablo Immortal in the monetization department as well for that group that might head back.

Weird how much this resonates with me and yet how unfazed I am to be counted among "that group" despite once seeing it as everything blasphemous and heretical to ARPGs. You speak rightfully of D3 refugees in Wraeclast and for a long time we joked about how this was a sanctuary from Sanctuary...but what I think Exiles of today have somehow missed is that after ten years of gruelling Exile, there is absolutely an opposite effect. You can hit up any arpg reddit and see people searching for a game that is not as mentally exhausting as PoE. Naturally Exiles might look down at that -- "too simple" is the mock du jour of these Exile impressions of DIV -- but it would be sheer folly not to acknowledge the demand for it.

Equally, it was sheer folly to think any long time Exile would be swayed by what DIV has been declaring itself from the start but it is amusing to watch nonetheless. Bit like hardcore scientists being unable to enjoy a popcorn movie because, well, it's all superficial bullshit in service of shallow action and spectacle.

But there is a reason we keep making vapid blockbusters and it's got almost nothing to do with the populace just having bad taste.

And when I think of it that way, I delight in how snobbish Exiles come across. Of course PoE has nothing to fear from DIV -- no complicated indie movie ever had much to fear from a blockbuster. Even really successful ones like say, Chronicle or the current (relatively) low budget darling EEAAO. And that is me ignoring the usual metaphors for PoE's appeal, you're welcome.

I hope Crucible gives you guys something else to do, something a little more worthy of your time and intellect than...whatever is happening in these weirdly obsessive threads about a game not even made for you or with you in mind.