Just saw the price of that d3 remake.. called d4.. 69 EURO fkn standart edition??

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Xyel wrote:

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Destructodave wrote:

I'm at the point in my life the monetary cost of a new experience is so far down the list of cons, I could care less if its 200 bucks. I'm gonna buy it.

Utterly irrelevant in the discussion. All I care about is having fun for a few months.

How do you know it will be fun for a few months?

Its rare to find a game that isnt fun to play for a few months. Especially a live-service and/or grindy game, like a Diablo, PoE, Lost ark, Warframe, Destiny, etc. Most Arpgs are so similar they are all fun for awhile, too.

They all have a honeymoon period. WoW expansions operate on this and so do most MMO expansions.

I mean even D3 was fun for quite awhile, and people really do some serious revisionist history trying to act like the game was terrible and not fun since the second it launched. It was definitely worth playing for a few months; it and the expansion.

With the sheer amount of games Ive played over my lifetime at this point, in teh same genre/vein, I would be shocked if it wasnt fun to play for a few months.

If anything, the main factor for a lot of people is its not fun for LONGER than a few months. People hunt forever games.

Remember kids, if something is free, you are the product...As true today as it is when I first heard it.

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Vendetta wrote:

Remember kids, if something is free, you are the product...As true today as it is when I first heard it.

And even if nothing is free, remember that you're still the product of your parents, so no need to feel left out.

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Vendetta wrote:

Remember kids, if something is free, you are the product...As true today as it is when I first heard it.

That's why it's called "F2P" and not "free" or "freeware". PoE is not - and has never been "free". So judging the F2P model from a perspective of "I should be able to enjoy everything the product has to offer for free, with the same experience as a paying costumer" just don't hold any water.

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Path of Exile is an online Action RPG set in the dark fantasy world of Wraeclast. It is designed around a strong online item economy, deep character customisation, competitive PvP and ladder races. The game is completely free and will never be "pay to win".

https://www.pathofexile.com/game - I highlighted the import part for you.

Veterans disagreeing with spin. No way. Wow.

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I hate this thread. Sigh.

Okay so some of you are banging on about how cost isn't an issue for you. That's cool and all and obviously I was in the same boat when I found PoE (now not so much) but I recognised even then I wasn't really the target audience for the game. It was going to be free to play, which meant it would attract people who were looking not just for a GOOD alternative to D3 but also a cheap one. Or, really, a cheap but fair alternative to other f2p games. And in both cases, GGG delivered and continue to deliver.

But for those of us for whom cost wasn't rhe attraction, who supported because it was that GOOD alternative to D3, surely we are less beholden to the f2p handcuffs and can just play whatever we want "for a few months" or however long. Oh and for the record, "a few months" to enjoy a game is not a honeymoon period -- if you get more than 50 hours of entertainment from a game you've done pretty well. Anything over 100 and you've hit the start of an obsession. GaaS have warped this notion and, very much on brand, have traded quality for quantity -- give me 20 hours of really engaging gameplay over a thousand of repetitive spam anyday UNLESS said spam has become an aforementioned obsession. Then the rules change somewhat.

Anyway, my point is there is some serious skullduggery going on when someone who can afford to play any game chooses this one, a game designed to hook players "forever" with its increasingly transparent lack of true growth beyond an expansion billed as a sequel and relatively superficial permutations that add to the same game and try to pass it off as a new experience the way instant ramen has different flavours but always somehow feel the same to eat.

So yeah. PoE did this weird thing by being both GOOD and FREE. And not even Warframe did that: it's GOOD but not as FREE, not with the option to just buy frames and weapons basically. So PoE was good enough to seduce financially able gamers, free enough to lure frugal ones, and fair enough to retain both. Hell of a stunt to pull for what is ultimately a one trick pony -- a grind of levels and gear, eternally replayed.

Like or not, Diablo IV has something PoE cannot: new car smell in a premium priced car type a lot of people have traditionally enjoyed driving. Those eho can afford to play whatever they want might not admit it but that smell is a facror for them/us (I haven't preordered and likely won't). This isn't quite the honeymoon phase but it has the same tingle of anticipation. The same weird thrill of danger -- this might be the dumbest thing to buy but oh it might not. PoE thrives not on that but a more workaday approach: constant low level engagement via new mtxes, "community" events and teases for incoming changes.

But here the stalwarts will say, fuck your nice smelling new car, it won't smell so nice a year from now after you've had some Maccas drive thru a few times, maybe a puke or two, the dog's torn the leather and a bird has shat on the windscreen. Then it'll just be a very expensive piece of shit while my old corolla is going strong after ten years. Maybe, maybe. But a game isn't a car and most gaming folk can afford to treat a game as ultimately disposable within a few months if not days or weeks. Which then turns the metaphor from cars to...say...TV shows. A new game is not a new car but a new show...and that one game you've been playing for ten years? Yeah. That's a soap opera. Or Supernatural. Or The Simpsons. Or one Reality TV show. None of which are healthy as a sole consumption (inasmuch as tv show consumption is healthy; as healthy as game consumption maybe).

So even for those playing PoE because it's free, it's probably a good idea to find and play other f2p games and resist their hooks -- so-called hate-playing.

And for those who play/played PoE because it was a good alternative to D3 and not because it was free...dude. 2013 is over. PoE is NOT the only game in town anymore. Whatever it does, another game will have done it better. Not all at once, and if the way the overall machine of PoE works is why you are still playing, well and good. As long as you are honest with yourself that there are better games out there but none that you might enjoy as much. It's your life and your money and your time. Go nuts.

But when I see gamers with sufficient resources complain bitterly about PoE while collecting challenges and new supporter titles, I am genuinely baffled. The only rational explanation I can come up is irrationality.

Anyway my thumbs are sore and DIABLO IV IS NOT A DIABLO 3 REMAKE.

people still pay almost 500 bucks for every new core pack they release + who knows on each league on lootboxes + who knows how many cards they put in the game by now..

but $69 is a massive outrage for some people here.. while having a shitload of "tags" showing how much you spent

ironic or bad trolling?

not convinced yet? well remember that you at some point you paid for QoL that should have been always for free.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Anyway, my point is there is some serious skullduggery going on when someone who can afford to play any game chooses this one

Hah!

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Phrazz wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Anyway, my point is there is some serious skullduggery going on when someone who can afford to play any game chooses this one

Hah!

Seriously though. What special charm does it have? What about it transcends its free to play nature that isn't somehow rooted in the fairness of its free to play model? The complexity of the system? It's a Gordian Knot and everyone here knows it. I am playing Titan Quest on my tablet with a ps4 controller right now and to me it is a more charming, enjoyable experience as an arpg than PoE has been for years.

Is it masochism then? Because my last memories of playing PoE, either on PC or Ps5, were that of actively fighting the game to dredge some engagement from it beyond configuring one skill to perform perfectly well no matter the situation. But that's back to the Gordian Knot set up -- all that is left to do after you have done that is find a different way of disentangling the knot. That is true of most if not all ARPGs, but I think the problem with PoE is those different ways ultimately don't feel all that different.

The ARPGs and ARPG-adjacent games I do play like that at least manage to make the loop a little engaging by leaning more into the A part of ARPG. PoE's different builds feel almost like palette swaps rather than genuinely different approaches. It's just that instead of palette swapping with a modern tool you are doing it by hand one shade of grey at a time. Somehow the inherent tedium of PoE's character conception and realisation doesn't leave people utterly devoid of all satisfaction.

So yeah, if you can afford any game out there, any time, why this one? Last Epoch, for all its issues, provides the one thing PoE does well that no other game has to date: highly customisable skills via enabled upgrades. Sure, it's kinda bland but it's not as though PoE is known for its liveliness either. Somehow PoE manages to be both visually overwhelming and underwhelming. It's an unusual end point for a game that did so well with its understated ambience early on in the face of its competitor's complete lack of cartoonish restraint.

My thumbs are sore again. Back to grinding Nessus.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Seriously though. What special charm does it have? What about it transcends its free to play nature that isn't somehow rooted in the fairness of its free to play model? The complexity of the system? It's a Gordian Knot and everyone here knows it. I am playing Titan Quest on my tablet with a ps4 controller right now and to me it is a more charming, enjoyable experience as an arpg than PoE has been for years.

We all know that car analogies are a bit overplayed here, but you started it first and I won't go at it for too long, I promise. So, PoE is kinda like an old BMW from back when you really drove the car and not just gave it hints and let it handle the rest, ok, or an old camera for those that hate cars. It's about the buttons and dials, and the very direct response from the system. That doesn't truly have to be complex, some buttons can be mostly for show, it's the feel you get from tampering with them, choosing what to press and how hard.

So, that's the most common reason someone with virtually unlimited cash got an ancient BMW for almost nothing and then invested $200k into it, instead of buying a new Tesla or whatever. Something that will just smoothly and comfortably take him from Jackson to Albuquerque just won't get the juices flowing. So, if you're unfortunate enough that PoE is the thing that gives you the tingles, you're kinda screwed because there isn't anything quite like it out there, and D4 almost certainly won't do the trick.