It seems like the time to remove the resist penalty and xp on death

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

If GGG would provide a "death log report" it would go a long way, I think, in depressing these calls for a rework of the XP death penalty.

Death log would have a horrendous performance cost in general mapping scenarios which is when you need it, not usually too bad to tell what killed you in a boss.

I realise this sounds like a cop out for they can't be bothered to do it but you have to consider having a log and read/writing every interaction constantly. Think about how big a log entry is for a WoW raid for example they have live logging and parsing right? It would be trivial for a single player to exceed the log output of an entire 25 man raid in PoE just because of how much shit goes on. Its amazing the engine even lets us do some of the things we can do and they've scaled back those over the years.

The china realm has the only kind they can implement which is a what was the very last thing that ticked you over into being dead, the problem with that is its as useless as not having anything. Again it'll give you a good answer in boss scenarios which is when its already easy to find out what killed you.

The way it would be programmed is that a very few values from each exchange of damage taken would be saved in a small circular file. On death this would be expanded and made readable. It really wouldn't be a big performance burden. The main problem is the effort to design and program the feature.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

If GGG would provide a "death log report" it would go a long way, I think, in depressing these calls for a rework of the XP death penalty.

Death log would have a horrendous performance cost in general mapping scenarios which is when you need it, not usually too bad to tell what killed you in a boss.

I realise this sounds like a cop out for they can't be bothered to do it but you have to consider having a log and read/writing every interaction constantly. Think about how big a log entry is for a WoW raid for example they have live logging and parsing right? It would be trivial for a single player to exceed the log output of an entire 25 man raid in PoE just because of how much shit goes on. Its amazing the engine even lets us do some of the things we can do and they've scaled back those over the years.

The china realm has the only kind they can implement which is a what was the very last thing that ticked you over into being dead, the problem with that is its as useless as not having anything. Again it'll give you a good answer in boss scenarios which is when its already easy to find out what killed you.

It's not a performance cost for you at all, no idea why you think it would be. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for the client to receive any additional data, unless you die. Death recap and combat log are not the same things.

The data is already there, the server already knows what happened.
They simply don't want to show you. that is all.

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Their entire argument from the beginning was that there are so many variables, the information would be useless. Despite being a poor excuse;

It might tell you that "X mob's fireball hit you for 5,692
- But that is all, you have no idea what mods it had, what auras it acquired, etc.

they have a point, but we still want to know 'something'

i think the real problem is that ggg doesnt want to admit that there is a certain playerbase among the core players who dislike the exp loss
but also dislike the amount of damage that can happen in such a short time
(rippy content)
its not challanging if i cant react to something
if the tetris blocks come down with the speed of light then not even the best player can pass those levels

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Chalace2 wrote:

It's not a performance cost for you at all, no idea why you think it would be.

Because i've written a combat log, everything has a performance cost either to the player or the server. You might think its irrelevant but there are circumstances where it will absolutely be relevant and considering how often dynamic culling kickings in for regular mapping of course its a concern.

Death recap and combat log are exactly the same thing btw i'll sit here and let you explain to me why they aren't, because I know you can't :p

The china one is keeping one variable when damage is passed that kills the player that one is very simple but that's also why its not very useful aside from you died to shaper slam.

Assuming PoE is implemented with proper security, client should not calculate mechanics and only receive rudimentary data about combat: moving/spawning of actors, playing animations and FX, and replication of the whole set of actors attributes, including health.

Full logging should exist on server, and in case of death, the latest portion of the log could be sent to client separately and written into clientside txt log, it is not that great network load.

As for logging performance cost on server, doubt GGG running their servers with logging disabled, and fragmenting those logs dynamically is not that great cost either, compared to main load of Arpg server.

In theory, server can also allocate small buffer in RAM, per instance, and log things there, without ever writing it to storage, although this is unorthodox way. Obviously I have no idea about the hardware PoE is using.

Last Epoch doesn't have much of a log but at least tells you what damage you died to.

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Turtledove wrote:

I'm pretty certain that vmt80 is posting in an illegible form of English because he is not a native English speaker. I don't bother trying to decipher his posts any longer. It is just too difficult.

That's not really how being a non-native English speaker tends to work out in practice. Not to mention, there's built-in spellcheck.

I suspect this person is writing normally and then passing the text through a mangler (like Pig Latin but obviously different). Why, I don't know, and it seems they've been doing it long enough nobody's even raising an eyebrow...

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Obright wrote:

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

The lack of league retention is more likely a reflection of the game getting harder and much more restrictive. Things people enjoy playing can get obliterated because of a random rare with certain archnem mods. Meeting minimum dps thresholds gets harder as so much gets nerfed with buffs few and farther between.

Yes, you are punished for being creative and using your imagination, while people who carbon-copy boring-assed meta builds are rewarded.

It's that, it's no easy trading of low-tier consumables like scarabs etc to keep people mapping, it's the EXP penalty on death, it's the lack of any documentation that isn't vaguely hinted at by dev's or datamined by some dude, it's the illusion of choice, it's the steep learning curve that you have to re-learn every 3 months, it's the constant, perpetual change just for the sake of it, it's the ever-diminishing returns unless you're an exalt oligarch.

It's everything, and it's getting worse every league.

While that doesn't include the current league, we lost 30k players IN ONE DAY - the first one.

You're confusing creativity and general balancing. The more you understand the mechanics the more you realize how balancing heavily influences what people end up playing.

In standard I've been revisiting old builds and trying new ones. My legacy Starforge with 500 increased physical still ends up topping out at just a little over a million as an impale cyclone. I tried several variants but short of procuring some expensive abyss jewels its not able to compete with other things I'm running. Sure I could invest more, but the return on investment is horrid so its not practical - especially considering at one point he was the one I used for my first uber elder takedown and multiple sirus runs and all that jazz. My hollow palm gives up several slots yet still ends up having better defensive layers and much much better damage. And yet, even that one is a poor choice for a lot of the content now.

If I stuck to lower level mapping, I could be a bit more creative with what I run. In fact, I still have characters that can only do lower tier stuff. I was considering deleting one till I saw how few deaths it had and felt I had to keep it. But ultimately the game has gotten progressively better at killing the player while limiting the available tools more and more.

Playing something different for the sake of different doesn't mean it has to be good. But you shouldn't be setting expectations too high either. When I started archnem my elementalist witch was built with a cold theme in mind. But despite my efforts, scaling up the damage through the usual means plateaued quickly. Eventually I decided to try that explosive arrow ballista setup and she ended up being the one to finish the hardest maven fights for me.

If I limited myself to playing my witch the way I originally wanted to play her, I would have never managed to 40/40 archnem. But, at the same time, I also learned about a new mechanic I would have otherwise never chosen to play at all.

One shouldn't feel entitled to their "original" build. While I do agree there is some illusion of choice, you most definitely have the freedom to create a poorly performing character.

As sentinel stands, the archnem integration has further reduced viable options. In the league, you chose what mods you dealt with and when. Now that they appear on rares, you're essentially having to play something that has to be able to handle a high variety of combinations. Builds that would be fine in previous leagues for general content could now get annihilated by a random yellow. Can't blame people for leaving over that.

Haven't looked at every profile, but every one I did that posted in this thread to remove death penalty doesn't even have a single lvl100 toon...
They should stop crying and learn how to build a toon that can get to 100.

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goodgulf87 wrote:

Haven't looked at every profile, but every one I did that posted in this thread to remove death penalty doesn't even have a single lvl100 toon...
They should stop crying and learn how to build a toon that can get to 100.

Could you please elaborate, what meaning is having lvl 100 toon supposed to carry, and to whom? And also how exactly should people learn to play, when game itself has little to no in-depth tutorials and death feedback? Happily venture into 3rd party tools? :)

There were patches when lvl 95+ exp gain curve wasn't as flat as it is now, there were patches when people could quickly get to 100 by just grinding Heist in 1 location. Treating it as personal achievement is pointless, and the problem highlighted in this thread never was about "Me cannot get 100, game bad!", but about squandered potential - gameplay variety being limited by rippy monster power, with exp penalty just adding insult to injury for basically nothing constructive in return.