TFT unethical business

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kuciol wrote:

The existance of power creep over the years proves you wrong. We are given new option as leagues come. The same build is twice as strong as it was like year ago (any build) despite getting some nerf along the way. They add harder and harder content because they have to because of that.

Nerfs are not done in a vaccum. There is a lot more going then just some numbers tweek.

Sure, but the content is also twice as strong as it was like year ago :)
AN core implementation killed much more builds than produced/allowed. And the new options we get still have same wild minmax cost disparity between each other, so idk how this contradicts my point.

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kuciol wrote:

Wrong, they try to prevent stagnation. They force players to find new broken things. Every single league there are some, in many cases even more broken then the previous ones.

Agreed about stagnation, but there are less lazy and aggressive ways to do it than adding more gear/dps checks. It is sad how plot-based leagues like Synthesis or Heist are not produced now. Instead we get more iterations of arena clusterfuck: Ritual, Ultimatum, Scourge, AN, Sentinel, they have 0 content, and only "prevent stagnation" by gradually raising the difficulty.

It is aimed at those who plays for numbers and challenge count, willing to grind 1-2 maps (for cards) indefinitely without becoming bored, which is what brings back the original point about game design for 1% of players.

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Echothesis wrote:

Sure, but the content is also twice as strong as it was like year ago :)
AN core implementation killed much more builds than produced/allowed. And the new options we get still have same wild minmax cost disparity between each other, so idk how this contradicts my point.

Its true for 1% of the game, for the rest its not even close. Thats the point you are missing. As a whole PoE got easier over the years. You are to fixated on content that by design is not for you and is irrelevant part of the game for vast majority.

Yes, I am not interested in uber bosses in the slightest, but AN affects "base" content greatly. Do you mean common blight (not ravaged) or delve should also be "irrelevant part of the game for vast majority"?

Some kinds of blight mobs have silly amount of focus fire ranged dps, even dedicated tank characters are better off dodging it, and AN mods can leave you open to that focus fire. Delve did not get any increases to the time window for killing what you encounter during tunnel traveling (meaning it is dedicated dps check). Same goes for Heist.

AN is a game-wide difficulty increase without providing any additional means to counter it, other than generic "need to minmax every build more now". Only people who would welcome such kind of challenge are the 1% imo, rest playerbase gets nothing constructive from last patches.

edit: before someone triggers gitgud here, I was not crying about myself in this post, but about design in general. I can clear all content in the game except the very top (ubers, named crucibles, 23+ wave simulacrums, etc)

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Echothesis wrote:

Yes, I am not interested in uber bosses in the slightest, but AN affects "base" content greatly. Do you mean common blight (not ravaged) or delve should also be "irrelevant part of the game for vast majority"?

Some kinds of blight mobs have silly amount of focus fire ranged dps, even dedicated tank characters are better off dodging it, and AN mods can leave you open to that focus fire. Delve did not get any increases to the time window for killing what you encounter during tunnel traveling (meaning it is dedicated dps check). Same goes for Heist.

AN is a game-wide difficulty increase without providing any additional means to counter it, other than generic "need to minmax every build more now". Only people who would welcome such kind of challenge are the 1% imo, rest playerbase gets nothing constructive from last patches.

edit: before someone triggers gitgud here, I was not crying about myself in this post, but about design in general. I can clear all content in the game except the very top (ubers, named crucibles, 23+ wave simulacrums, etc)

Again, same issue. You are complaining about singular mechanic that can be adjusted and whole drama about it was overblown. AN mobs are not that hard after tweaks. AN and uber bosses are not the only things added and changed. You are disingenuous on purpose and you know it.

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kuciol wrote:

The existance of power creep over the years proves you wrong. We are given new option as leagues come. The same build is twice as strong as it was like year ago (any build) despite getting some nerf along the way.

Nope.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1769788

That is 2.6. 134 million dps, to maybe 500k now? Look at the gear here, only the chest was worth more than 50c.

More recent.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2912301

Went from 20M dps to maybe 1? And defense got obliterated.

Neither of these builds is even viable now, and not only that but neither archetype is viable now.

Sorry, I shouldnt bother arguing with you, but I hear this same nonsense all the time. Pre "double dip" nerf, many, many builds were far more powerful than the meta of today.

Players are far weaker now than the double dip nerf, and with AN put in, I dont see any reasonable argument that is is not the weakest they have ever been relative to content.

Name a patch and explain why.

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trixxar wrote:

Nope.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1769788

That is 2.6. 134 million dps, to maybe 500k now? Look at the gear here, only the chest was worth more than 50c.

More recent.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2912301

Went from 20M dps to maybe 1? And defense got obliterated.

Neither of these builds is even viable now, and not only that but neither archetype is viable now.

Sorry, I shouldnt bother arguing with you, but I hear this same nonsense all the time. Pre "double dip" nerf, many, many builds were far more powerful than the meta of today.

Players are far weaker now than the double dip nerf, and with AN put in, I dont see any reasonable argument that is is not the weakest they have ever been relative to content.

Name a patch and explain why.

So? You point few outliers, thats all there is to it. There will always be some. Those are exceptions that confirm the rule.

Also you can make different blade flurry build for example that will still be OP. Adapt.

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kuciol wrote:

Again, same issue. You are complaining about singular mechanic that can be adjusted and whole drama about it was overblown. AN mobs are not that hard after tweaks. AN and uber bosses are not the only things added and changed. You are disingenuous on purpose and you know it.

AN "drama" was never contained only within AN mechanics, it was about how it triggers other mechanics, first of all exp death penalty. I see one lvl 93 and 91 chars on your account, and the rest are 90 or below, so you likely never had a personal experience with playing a lvl 99 char who is a glass cannon, not a dedicated tank with all defense layers in the game equipped at once, in the current content. That doesn't mean you are inexperienced player of course, just that you've never tried to push into areas where AN "balance" really starts to shine.

AN mobs are not that hard after you accept the shrinking of build variety and roleplaying freedom, like how you now have to stack max res on most builds you want to take into the endgame. Once, aurabots were a nerd gimmick for party run support, now aurastacking is a must-have on every character (unless you already have mirror gear to do without auras), or you'll never fit in enough defenses and dps (for endgame) at the same time.

If you think all this is about people setting their personal goals too high, and being above level 90 is "not for me", okay, I respect your opinion.

As a side notice, that new interview with Chris today was a big kappa, think a few lines should be saved for posterity:

- "We want our new player experience to involve all bits that a person is going to experience at common, as in every player gets to experience a bit of what they're going to experience for their lifelong playing of the game"

- "We try very hard to be transparent with the community"

- "If we make a mistake - the players tell us, we apologize, we explain what's going on, we change it if we deem it necessary, so we try very hard to do what is in the best interests of players"

- "The correct plan is to play easier, simpler build, use it to build wealth and then play endgame build based on the stuff you find using your league starter"

Not going to express about it, people can draw their own conclusions :)

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Echothesis wrote:

AN "drama" was never contained only within AN mechanics, it was about how it triggers other mechanics, first of all exp death penalty. I see one lvl 93 and 91 chars on your account, and the rest are 90 or below, so you likely never had a personal experience with playing a lvl 99 char who is a glass cannon, not a dedicated tank with all defense layers in the game equipped at once, in the current content. That doesn't mean you are inexperienced player of course, just that you've never tried to push into areas where AN "balance" really starts to shine.

AN mobs are not that hard after you accept the shrinking of build variety and roleplaying freedom, like how you now have to stack max res on most builds you want to take into the endgame. Once, aurabots were a nerd gimmick for party run support, now aurastacking is a must-have on every character (unless you already have mirror gear to do without auras), or you'll never fit in enough defenses and dps (for endgame) at the same time.

If you think all this is about people setting their personal goals too high, and being above level 90 is "not for me", okay, I respect your opinion.

Mathil alone is perfect example that build variety is fine. The fact that you need to think about defenses and not only dps now is a good thing. And dont start with bs on how much he plays. His /played on most characters hardly exceeds 4 days and he doesnt have any crazy gear. Only a few times he made 50ex+ gear for characters and those were mostly stat stackers.

If you play glass cannon you know what to expect, you will die, a lot. Thats the trade off you are taking.

Also i dont get to 100 because i get bored around level 90 and then i start thinking about new stupid build i will make. The best i ever had was 95 or 96, deleted. Getting to 100 forces you to play safe, that was the goal and thats also fine. I can do easily t16 maps, its not zoom zoom but i dont care about that. Also my chars rarely have gear worth over 5ex so i dont expect god knows what.

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kuciol wrote:

Mathil alone is perfect example that build variety is fine. The fact that you need to think about defenses and not only dps now is a good thing. And dont start with bs on how much he plays. His /played on most characters hardly exceeds 4 days and he doesnt have any crazy gear. Only a few times he made 50ex+ gear for characters and those were mostly stat stackers.

If you play glass cannon you know what to expect, you will die, a lot. Thats the trade off you are taking.

That guy can develop character in 4 days because he already played something similar before, lol. It is total playtime that matters, not per-character. For guys like him, the game is long broken down to building bricks comprising "bits of defense" and "bits of dps", so those bricks are just being mixed in various combinations. Of course his characters are successful, because he won't even start to play anything that won't work (or won't show it on stream, this is a business after all).

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Echothesis wrote:

That guy can develop character in 4 days because he already played something similar before, lol. It is total playtime that matters, not per-character. For guys like him, the game is long broken down to building bricks comprising "bits of defense" and "bits of dps", so those bricks are just being mixed in various combinations. Of course his characters are successful, because he won't even start to play anything that won't work (or won't show it on stream, this is a business after all).

He killed Maven with frost blink totems and chain hook.... He plays a ton of skills that are considered unplayable but he know how to make them work. Thats like the entire point of PoE, to find a way.

He also has god-like mechanics i wont deny that but people here cant comprehend that they are not as good as they think they are, its easier to blame the game. Its like this in every game. Its very hard pill to swallow.

Did some builds got gutted over the years? Hell yeah they were. Is the game balanced? Hell no, and never will. But its not so doom and gloom as people try to make it.