Kripp's New Video - Phys. Damage Suxx In This Game

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Qiox wrote:

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steven_mcburn wrote:

I skipped over most of this thread, but..


Let's say his figures are right. Makes sense, why wouldn't they be?

Know what he's not telling you in that video?

It would be 600 per hit of multistrike, which hits a total of 3 times. And yes, you're doing 284.21 damage a hit (if he's right, once again), but you hit 3 times for a total of 852.63, which is far more than the 600 hit you were doing (42%ish more damage even).


So, why are people listening to this guy like he's a god?


Yeah, when you add 2 more hits to your single hit you deal less per hit, but more by the time the attack is finished...

Nice dumb post. Thanks for the non-contribution to the thread.

Those 3 times you hit do not occur in the same amount of time that the 1 hit without multistrike takes. He in fact explains all that and you completely missed it. Heck, you shouldn't even need him to explain it to you. You get all the information you need to figure that out just by reading the description of the gem.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

And what if the AR amount were lower? Does he think that all of his elemental damage is getting through?

Further, his calculations fail to take into account the increase in melee physical dmg from leveling the gem, or having it with quality.

Physical dmg is made for big hits, everyone knows this. Considering many people are using that gem, and are having success with it doing more damage than before, in terms of dps, his armour calculations are most likely off for starters.

It's possible to 1 shot mobs in maps using flicker, with both multi strike and splash mind you. Perhaps if he actually tried it, he would see that physical > elemental in end game.

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flab wrote:

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VoxelSquid wrote:

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flab wrote:

[snip]
So, effectively, to fix that to some degree (if it is desired), you want the opposite of endurance charges. Presto. Armour penetration gem. You could also have some sort of stacking armour degradation ailment, as has been suggested.

I think armour penetration is unnecessary when you build with maximising damage per hit in mind, as opposed to just maximising your theoretical dps by using fast but lower-base-phys weapons like thicket bows.

That's exactly the point, there is no use in low physical damage unless it's for getting elemental damage. The armour mechanic causes physical damage to only function well in a narrow range, at the high end.

You're basically forcing all kinds of users (mostly 1h+shield, bows) to either be incredibly gimped or make sure they have lots of elemental increases and conversions, if they can't stack base damage. Armour penetration would help a lot of average joe physical users.

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steven_mcburn wrote:

Looking at my shadow, like I said AFTER THE POST YOU QUOTED, he hits @ .19 attacks per second. WITHOUT IT, looking at it now, it's .46 attacks per second. WITH the "faster attack" support gem, it's .33.

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Xavderion wrote:

INVALESCO WALL OF TEXT MATH WHERE

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Invalesco wrote:

Spoiler

It's a good vid, but I must disagree with some points as I feel like not the whole picture has been provided.

1. This video is talking about how multistrike relates to certain skills and did not cover the whole spectrum of physical vs elemental, hence the title is rather misleading.
2. Elemental Resistance on mobs are more common, that wasn't touched on
3. Multistrike provides %increased melee physical damage as it scales
4. Very few players do only 1k physical damage at end game. Most players can do alot more than that.

My view: Elemental damage has always scaled well early game as compared to physical damage. The superiority of elemental mods on gear is one such example, and %phys and +phys scales poorly because of the poor base damage on early weapons. However, come end-game, physical damage always scales better.
Take a look at this screenshot:

Spoiler

This was a CI character at level 73. Granted, this was in closed beta, but damage mods on gear have not been nerfed in any way, so that amount of phys damage is still very much achievable. Because he was able to use 2 melee phys support gems on that skill. However, that's countered by the fact that he is a dagger user, and daggers do not actually have that high a base physical damage compared to other weapons.

With regards to the usage of multistrike, This char has an average base physical damage of 1887. Without multistrike, 1887 damage on an enemy with 8k armour will yield 1394.493 damage.

With multistrike, the new DR equates to 8000/(8000+12x1132.2)= 37% New damage dealt within the same duration with the 100% more attack speed = 0.63 x 1887 x 2 = 2377, which is higher than 1394.493. This calculation hasn't yet taken into account the %increased melee physical damage bonus granted from multistrike yet.
Multistrike will always provide a DPS bonus for ele builds because monster reduction does not scale depending on damage. It is flat. For physical damage, the bonus it may/may not provides is based on your phys damage output.

In end-game, with high physical damage, monster damage reduction scales lower. With ele resist mobs, which are also more commonplace, damage reduction will always be a flat percentage. Hence phys damage builds will actually have higher damage output as compared to ele builds in end-game and will deal more damage.

Another point is survivability and sustainability. Both physical and ele will have issues with reflect, that much is true. However, physical builds will have more leech options. Ele builds can only rely on the life leech and mana leech support gem. Phys builds have the option of relying on %life/mana leech on gear, and shadows for instance have the mind drinker node nearby. Blood Rage also provides %life leech.
Also, crit-based physical melee builds will also always outdps their ele counterparts at end-game, simply because the sheer amount of damage you dish out when you crit will reduce the opponent's DR to nearly 0, whereas ele resist mobs will always still reduce it by a flat percentage.

For some other builds such as crit dagger builds, crit-based physical will always be the best option and ele dagger will never be able to compete, simply because dagger crit nodes all provide increased physical damage bonuses.