Kripp's New Video - Phys. Damage Suxx In This Game

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Recapax wrote:

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steven_mcburn wrote:

Looking at my shadow, like I said AFTER THE POST YOU QUOTED, he hits @ .19 attacks per second. WITHOUT IT, looking at it now, it's .46 attacks per second. WITH the "faster attack" support gem, it's .33.

Hi.
I'm interesting on your stats. When I check the wiki ( http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Multistrike ) it seems that %attackspeed increase for 1% per level, from 88 (i.e 108% max). You said that you are going from 1 attack per 0.46 second to 1 attack per 0.19 sec (you said the opposite but i think 0.19 per second would be a prety slow attack speed ;)).
This is something like 130% increase attack speed. In the wiki they said that quality increase the damage (0.5% per q). So there is like a gap of 22% between the wiki and your stats. Is the wiki wrong? Or did the %attack speed increase is more than 1/lvl at a certain level of the gem? Or maybe I did my calculation wrong :(

Passive tree brosephina. Really easy to get attack speed on shadows. There's like 18% ias in the first 6 points you can spend, lol.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYABbUOSA6tD6sRLxGWFHUV_Ra_GdceGiEDJDwmlSepKCoppTBUMHwyAT1lSTtJUVFHVUtW-lptYeJh62OnZfFnoGp-bXtwUnDVdEF313lIelN_K3_GhxmH24hrjDaNv5KAmVeZmpsmpn-nNKdcqn-quLGzshm0OLVItve7fMBRzerPetYH3Ube9uOE5RnndOjW62PtQe1276Dw2fPq-_X8TvzF_5M=

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Boem wrote:

@ Zhatan

U could look at the previeus page, then u would see my "wall of text" explaining in detail why we are not seeing these builds atm.
If u would give me a desync free PoE game, i would be more then happy to demonstrate the viablity of this, since i am waiting for this myself...

Why is it that melee elemetal got ppl playing it at endgame level then? You mean that physical suffers more from desync? Come on.

Currently building one :)

Lvl 56 so far. With around 6k with charges, and 4k without. Plenty of nodes and gem levels to go.

Not counting that soon I will be switching to

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Recapax wrote:

In the wiki they said that quality increase the damage (0.5% per q). So there is like a gap of 22% between the wiki and your stats. Is the wiki wrong? Or did the %attack speed increase is more than 1/lvl at a certain level of the gem? Or maybe I did my calculation wrong :(

The gem atk speed is "more", so he probably has some other forms of atk speed already, which than get multiplied again and this nets the 22% extra speed.


On a other topic, i still think armor penetration notes/gems are what might give more phy dmg diversity. Its not the same as trying to build for max. dmg, since u have a much wider build choice using penetration. U could go full blown atk speed and take a pene gem + some nodes or a mix, with medium phy damage.

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Why is it that melee elemetal got ppl playing it at endgame level then? You mean that physical suffers more from desync? Come on.

You seem to be missing half of my point in my "wall of text"

Yes physical builds suffer more from desync, and i wil attempt (i think about attempt number 7 in this thread, no offens but people seem slow in this thread) to explain it yet again.

1. physical damage builds require passive tree investment for damage, oposed to elemental builds who can rely fully on mod's on gear to boost dps.

2. reason 1 secures that a high physical dps character has less survivability, as oposed to stacking hp nodes and getting elemental damage from gear to boost dps.

3. Desync prohibits the viability of builds that are not designed towards maximizing defensive value's, therefore they are unseen in the current gamestate, HOWEVER they do hold the most potential of high dps (a lot higher then elemental builds could ever achieve)

4. In light of this information i can only conclude that this threads "tittle" is a hoax and not accurate to the exual content of PoE, if it was however renamed
"Phys. Damage suxx in the current state of the game" i would have to agree. But since it purely attacks the posibility of pure physical builds doing well in this game, and this being a lie and based on nothing but phantom thought's, i cant agree.
The numbers opose this vision.

If u want me to go into detail in any of the above made statements, feel free and i wil try to elaborate into it, but from a purely theorycrafting perspective and seeing all the mechanics/mobs/passive tree/skill gems in this game one can easily conclude on his own physical damage wil always outtriumph elemental damage.

Game needs added physical damage and armor penetration support gems and why not physical weakness curse

obviously some people need to watch the video with an objective critical eye.
The title of the video is misleading, and he says it only at the end of the video... maybe a troll?
The video was about one gem and how it scales better with elemental damage than physical. The less effectiveness was a particular scenario as pointed out in the video. Also he stated that the gem can benefit a few physical skills.
I dont see where you can see some sort of physical vs elemental debate in the video. (but if you watch him a few times, he seems to be biased toward the elemental side)

Anyway I wanted to point out one thing that nobody talks ever, the numbers of hit to kill a monster. Dps is irrelevant for very high damage in one hit. If you have a very high dps but one hit doesnt kill the monster but leaves 0.1% of his life, you still need 2 hits to kill him, thus your dps efficiency as to speak is halved. On the other end if you attack very fast but with less damage, your dps efficiency can be accurately estimate by your dps.
I think most of the games are biased towards doing a lot of small damages faster, because any variation of the monster stats, or the damage output has less impact then it would on high damages but smaller speed. However with how the armor works in this game maybe that's not the case for this game.

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Invalesco wrote:

Elemental has always scaled better than phys in early-mid game. BUT physical always out-trumps elemental in end-game. Must I crit you guys with my walls of text in this thread as well?

I am curious about the physical dmg in your build. Then use hatred/added fire/weapon ele and elemental rings/belt. I still think the majority of your damage(including effective) will be from elemental etc and it would be higher than not using that stuff. Especially if you're a bow user. (Depending on your build weapon elemental nodes too!)

I'm not saying I don't think physical works, I know it does. I am just curious if the bigger portion of your damage is going to be physical.

Well if the Kripps says so it must be true heh ?

What were we all doing in CB if we couldn't work this vexing mathematical calamity out.

Why wasn't there any feedback from the CB community about any of the stuff Kripps brings up.

Why must Kripps almost (almost) single handedly theory craft every single viable end game build known to man since before 2011.

Now that Kripps is onboard and making the devs aware,maybe POE will get some fixing in much needed areas.

Sorry for the sarcasm,but stuffs been broke/unbalanced/unfinished and endlessly rehashed on these very forums for so long now that besides new content and the need for a good percent of OB players to have a working *economy* in a game that was supposed to be barter based,that I find it hard to believe anyone just figured this out.

@ riptid3

Hello u again :o)

In the example u are proposing, scalling ure damage to elemental would exualy be detremental for the theoretical build sugested.

As previuesly stated by me and invalesco in this thread( and god knows how many others who understand game mechanics) if u would like u sugest convert a portions of ure physical damage to be elemental, ure overal physical damage would scale down if im not mistaken, therefore granting even less damage vs armor. However if it is all pure physical and high enuf u would have effectively penetrated armor to the point where it becomes useles (oposed to elemental damage always having a % reduction no mather how high ure damage is)

So basicly u might end up having a higher dps count on ure information screen, but because of all the damage mitigation provided by mobs, ure exualy ingame dps might be lower.

Physical damage can reduce mitigation of mobs to 0%
Elemental damage can not, therefore from a purely theoretical viewpoint, physical wil always scale better in effective damage output.

However like i stated before, this cant be done atm.

The simple reason why elemental is better in the current game state is because u can add damage with gear instead of passive skill points, therefore u have more skill points left to maximize ure "path of life nodes", if however the servers where stable, people could play a sort of "chuck norris" physical damage marauder that would "one hit wonder" anything it passes and stil be able to survive because of control of suroundings (wich isent the case atm because of desync issues) a sort of "skilled" melee build where vigilance is key and hitting first is mandatory.