POE Heading to D3 Land...please reconsider

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JoannaDark wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

People really seem to be getting concerned that this game might become like D3.

Oh the horror!

Actually, I think alot of people are leaning towards the notion, that D3, is getting fixed over time, and POE is getting destroyed over time.

Heh, that's a great line. I agree.

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johnnysd wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Spoiler

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johnnysd wrote:

The trading faction believes that if the drop rates are raised then the economy will collapse and it will be too easy to get the best items, keeping people from playing long enough to support the game.

I don't think that's the real issue at all.

Let's say you have a economic imbalance. For example, Chaos Orb vs Exalted Orb; even after the vendor formula change, it's still much easier to farm Chaos (including using the new formula) than it is to farm Exalts, so the way supply changes over time, Chaos Orbs will be continually dropping in price relative to Exalts, with the sole exceptions being occasional market correction. What "market correction" means here is that people knew Chaos would continually drop in value, but they got ahead of themselves and dropped the value too much, then had to adjust it up so that it could continue to drop in value at a reasonable rate. At no point would the Chaos Orb ever naturally recover; all such imbalances get worse over time.

Increasing drop rate is essentially putting the economy on fast forward. Generally speaking, that's a bad thing; imbalances in the game get worse, faster. However, the exact explanation quoted -- that it makes it too easy to get the best items -- is irrelevant from a trading perspective. With a properly balanced economy, valuations won't change all that much over time, and increasing the drop rate will have a very minor effect on trading.

Of course, GGG didn't increase the global drop rate; they increased the unique drop rate. This effects the relative supply of uniques compared to currency, but for the most part it's the same concepts applied to uniques only.

Again, missing the point that many people have NO INTEREST in buying items and could care less what happens to the economy.

That's like saying you have no interest in how strong the ranger starting area is on the passive tree, because you're always going to play caster and never roll ranger. On the one hand, it's a cop-out and a fundamentally selfish way to look at game balance. On the other hand, there is some truth to it: most players don't really play the whole game, they play the portion of the game that interests them, and if developers aren't careful they could completely alienate players by improving something those players care nothing about, at the cost of something that very much matters to them.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Again, missing the point that many people have NO INTEREST in buying items and could care less what happens to the economy.

That's like saying you have no interest in how strong the ranger starting area is on the passive tree, because you're always going to play caster and never roll ranger. On the one hand, it's a cop-out and a fundamentally selfish way to look at game balance. On the other hand, there is some truth to it: most players don't really play the whole game, they play the portion of the game that interests them, and if developers aren't careful they could completely alienate players by improving something those players care nothing about, at the cost of something that very much matters to them.[/quote]

You are kinda taking his point to an extreme though, at least if we are discussing the game that PoE was apparently inspired from (D2)

In D2, the majority of the population did not buy items and there wasn't any real economy at all. If you look at it from that context, then obviously people are going to say such things. People do not want "fixes" to the economy altering their own gameplay experiences if they aren't trading (or involved) in the economy themselves, which is precisely what is happening right that (either that or its the converse, PoE is not fixing the game because of how does changes might destroy the economy)

As I have said so many times before, the only main aRPGS which have their game design and concept centered around economies are D3 and PoE. D3 is however being true to their word, they intentionally created an online economy and they intentionally are embracing it, some people disagree with that, but they are being "honest". And if you look how D3's loot and item mods work, D3 does need an online economy with AH, because if widely varying mod and mod ranges on items. You do need some system in D3 where you can look for specific strong stats for an item that you want to buy for a certain playstyle you want to do (like getting lifesteal on the monk, or getting spirit regeneration which provides very different playstyles)

PoE on the other hand, is not really being true or "honest". GGG stated that they do not want an AH system, but its becoming more and more obvious that this game will need an AH system. They are adding more affixes to the pool (which is going to make rolling the mods you want harder than it previously was), and the shitty drop rates of currency (and the general inability to craft after you reach a certain level unless you play fr 10 hours a day and have overloaded currency).

I mean the thing is, auction houses are already popping up for PoE. Stuff like poe xyz (and there have been another 2 sites that just recently popped up) are basically completely emulating an AH system by indexing the trade forums. Public stashes are just going to be another form of an AH. In fact, GGG appear to be going down the route of D3 where you will have an AH, its just not going to be an RMAH (irrelevant in this discussion), and its not going to be the exact same as the D3 auction house, and its probably not gong to be called an AH, most likely due to trying to avoid the bad stigma that the D3 created with its AH

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

That's like saying you have no interest in how strong the ranger starting area is on the passive tree, because you're always going to play caster and never roll ranger. On the one hand, it's a cop-out and a fundamentally selfish way to look at game balance. On the other hand, there is some truth to it: most players don't really play the whole game, they play the portion of the game that interests them, and if developers aren't careful they could completely alienate players by improving something those players care nothing about, at the cost of something that very much matters to them.

This is a VERY valid point, it HAS to be taken into account that you can't change the game if it's going to detriment another large factor of the game. However rather than the trading aspect of this game being an optional aid to gearing, it is for many who play PoE, a CLEAR and OBVIOUS superior alternative to gearing up by what you find. This is because the orbs are better off USED as a currency as opposed to being used as extra dice rolls, this is because it's TOO RNG based. That doesn't mean it shouldn't have an RNG element, but it's just shy of pure RNG at this point and thus trading and the market have TOO MUCH POWER, yes they're supplied by drops but ultimately trading is king in this game, and I may just be speaking for myself, but it's one of the few aspects of RPGS lately that just boils my urine now... I'm tired of RPGS being reduced to day trading and item flipping, as opposed to you know... ADVENTURING. I don't want to play Donald trump simulator: wraeclath. I just don't... but if I don't want to end up missing out on progressing at a reasonable rate, that's EXACTLY what I have to do. Can't I just get reasonable drops without having to risk being ripped off?

This game is absolutely perfect and you should be ashamed for having posted that.

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JoannaDark wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

People really seem to be getting concerned that this game might become like D3.

Oh the horror!

Actually, I think alot of people are leaning towards the notion, that D3, is getting fixed over time, and POE is getting destroyed over time.

After the initial two months post D3 release, I completely forgot the game. Then I've read some posts here earlier and went over to see what changed. After spending over an hour reading about all the changes and improvements made to the original game.. two words..

HOLY SHIT!

Seems like mr. "fatty" Jay's cheeks got squeezed hard.. D3 is looking better then ever, crafting being constantly changed and molded with the focus on players, account-bound items in form of craftable endgame epics, skills specifically modified to accommodate larger variety of viable endgame builds, etc.. And on top of it all, you don't have to waste days searching trough third party sites (and risk your account's security) for some item you need, or visit RMT's to buy exalts since default economy is getting more and more destroyed with each passing day.

I love PoE and all, but man.. 'Flipping the switch' decision is getting easier by the day, if this self-destruction keeps going on..

I still wonder what Chris and Jay talked about during their time together at GDC.. Ever since, PoE went from a mild slowfall to literally crashing down.

Seeing how this thread is already 43 pages, all I can say is I hope GGG sticks to their design philosophies and completely disregards threads like these. Cheers.

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Alhoon wrote:

Seeing how this thread is already 43 pages, all I can say is I hope GGG sticks to their design philosophies and completely disregards threads like these. Cheers.

Apparently you missed the part where a developer spoke up and flat out said they'd endeavor to make the game more rewarding. You'd think an Illithid Lich would be more observant.

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Obsidus wrote:

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Alhoon wrote:

Seeing how this thread is already 43 pages, all I can say is I hope GGG sticks to their design philosophies and completely disregards threads like these. Cheers.

Apparently you missed the part where a developer spoke up and flat out said they'd endeavor to make the game more rewarding. You'd think an Illithid Lich would be more observant.

Well, I said earlier that it takes 900+ pages to make the devs change stuff up ;)

@Obsidus: I wouldn't expect too much from that "endeavour" ;) Most probably dev conception of "rewarding" does not fit yours :)

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Undon3 wrote:

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Obsidus wrote:

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Alhoon wrote:

Seeing how this thread is already 43 pages, all I can say is I hope GGG sticks to their design philosophies and completely disregards threads like these. Cheers.

Apparently you missed the part where a developer spoke up and flat out said they'd endeavor to make the game more rewarding. You'd think an Illithid Lich would be more observant.

Well, I said earlier that it takes 900+ pages to make the devs change stuff up ;)

@Obsidus: I wouldn't expect too much from that "endeavour" ;) Most probably dev conception of "rewarding" does not fit yours :)

Probably. I wouldn't be shocked if the buff to unique drops was the whole kit and kaboodle in that regard.