POE Heading to D3 Land...please reconsider

I got into the closed beta and loved it. I played a ton and think that POE is a great game. I am a supporter and only want this game to be the best it can be.

I took a good time off, and recently started playing it again. And I am finding the experience significantly less engaging than it was several months ago.

The game as it is now is just not rewarding. It seems like drop rates of anything useful have been tuned exceedingly low, probably in an attempt to influence the trading economy and I think that is a huge mistake.

Trading for items should be entirely optional. The game should reward you for playing regularly and if you choose to trade great, if not well then an interesting drop is just around the corner. As it is now, it is starting to feel like the endless slog of grinding for no reward that D3 is, also because of trying to "balance" the in game economy. And this is a huge mistake.

D2 is obviously the biggest influence on this game and yet it is not heeding the way loot and itemization was handled in that game at all.

D2 was always rewarding. Right from level 1 through the entirety of the game you were always getting rewarded with interesting loot. Part of this has to do of course with the fact that D2 had so many more types of interesting drops: rares, three levels of uniques, charms, runes, gems, three levels of set items. More importantly though the drop rate of all of them were pretty high so you always were finding something new, and the Horadric Cube gave a linear upgrade path to higher level gems, runes and crafted items. Items were easily farmeable, maybe too easy, yet the really really great items were SUPER rare. I never ever found a Stone of Jordan, which was used as currency, but in probably thouands of hours of playing I was never bored and it never felt grind-y.

POE on the other hand always feels grindy. Really all you find are white items and an occasional orb. And POE only has orbs, items and skill gems to find. In beta you found rares all the time. Large chests were fun and some of the higher end orbs were not like trying to find ZOD. It never seems to be rewarding. Every few hours or days maybe you find a unique and thats cool but very rarely. It is just an endless grind.

I have no interest in the online economy, I shouldn't have to. I may struggle to find the best unqiues, but I should find interesting stuff all the time. I don't in the game now. It really feels a lot like playing D3, and with much of the same community attitude (few who are contributors as far as I can see) that plagues that horrific game.

POE really needs to address this or it will not receive the long term play it wants to have in my view.

I agree with all of this.

There have been simply too many occasions of me killing a rare monster in PoE since late CB to now that resulted in all white items. Either my luck's changed or that wasn't the case earlier in the CB.

I'm a solo player and almost never trade. I find the idea of trading pretty abhorrent and much prefer just giving stuff I don't need to friends in the hope (knowledge, so far) that they will reciprocate. I am not on here to play Virtual Economy and I really couldn't give a stuff what anything is worth.

I'd like to say that maybe it's just a case of burn-out or overexposure but I genuinely feel something has changed since CB regarding loot. Not the unique droprate -- I only got a few of those in CB and only have a few now -- but the general occurrence of rares from rares.

Do I think every rare monster killed should yield at least one rare? Absolutely. Some of them are right fuckers to kill and when you finally do it, and get only whites or maybe a blue and some common currency, it really sucks.

I concede that the game is as ever in progress and the introduction of more uniques will, or should, make them more common in spawning, but like I said, I don't feel that's the issue.

Another issue regarding reward is world-drop-only gems. They're cool in concept but they really do lock away certain builds (and thus certain power) to those who trade aggressively or get really lucky. I'm neither. I love the idea of gems dropping but also feel that six classes should be enough to distribute them such that none are world-drop-only, all are assigned to a class. This way, if I want that multistrike or chain, I can either aggressively trade for it, get lucky OR level the appropriate class to the required quest reward and mule it. Skill-certainty certainty should be guaranteed for builds, if indeed it is not for all other items.

I accept that grinding for a 6L is a massive undertaking, especially one with great stats. I accept that 'crafting' in this game is the big grind and I don't mind that.

But when I finish a quest and none of the gems are even vaguely interesting to me, I feel cheated. Conversely, some classes get 3-4 great gems per quest and I'm left stuck choosing one.

I think allocating those wicked world-only drop to higher level quest rewards, one or two per class, would go a long way in returning some semblance of reward for play, not to mention class choice.

I know, a bit of a tangent, but related to the concept of 'rewarding play' I feel.

To iterate: I agree that general, non-party, non-IIQ/IIR, non-multiclient play can be very, very unsatisfying drop-wise.

The thing is, this game is completely balanced around trading. This would work quite well if POE had a functional trading system and economy. The RNG would be evened out throughout the entire player population, so that some people would get some things while other would get others, and trading will make sure the right thing goes to the right person.

However, this makes the game into a trade simulator. People start spending more time trading than actually playing to get their items. This is exacerbated by the fact that "crafting" is completely outclassed by trading in this game. The only way to get anything is by trading for it, because, well, this is how it's designed to be. If not, GGG has failed massively.

If you simply don't like trading, you are handing yourself the short end of the stick. The only way to get anything you want in this game is to trade for it, or start getting real lucky real soon.

"

tinghshi wrote:

The thing is, this game is completely balanced around trading. This would work quite well if POE had a functional trading system and economy. The RNG would be evened out throughout the entire player population, so that some people would get some things while other would get others, and trading will make sure the right thing goes to the right person.

However, this makes the game into a trade simulator. People start spending more time trading than actually playing to get their items. This is exacerbated by the fact that "crafting" is completely outclassed by trading in this game. The only way to get anything is by trading for it, because, well, this is how it's designed to be. If not, GGG has failed massively.

If you simply don't like trading, you are handing yourself the short end of the stick. The only way to get anything you want in this game is to trade for it, or start getting real lucky real soon.

Which is amazingly and sadly similar to the D3 way of only getting things through the AH. They are really converging, and from my point of view most people dislike that type of gameplay.

People for the most part want to FIND or possibly craft their items, not trade a bunch of currency gathered from endless grinding.

So much truth in this thdread.

The Self Found League:

All trading disabled.

Items dropped on the ground are destroyed, like in town, regardless of zone.

IIQ/IIR increased by Q%/R%, for some (high or even very high) values of Q and R.


--C

"

Charan wrote:

I agree with all of this.

There have been simply too many occasions of me killing a rare monster in PoE since late CB to now that resulted in all white items. Either my luck's changed or that wasn't the case earlier in the CB.

I'm a solo player and almost never trade. I find the idea of trading pretty abhorrent and much prefer just giving stuff I don't need to friends in the hope (knowledge, so far) that they will reciprocate. I am not on here to play Virtual Economy and I really couldn't give a stuff what anything is worth.

I'd like to say that maybe it's just a case of burn-out or overexposure but I genuinely feel something has changed since CB regarding loot. Not the unique droprate -- I only got a few of those in CB and only have a few now -- but the general occurrence of rares from rares.

Do I think every rare monster killed should yield at least one rare? Absolutely. Some of them are right fuckers to kill and when you finally do it, and get only whites or maybe a blue and some common currency, it really sucks.

I concede that the game is as ever in progress and the introduction of more uniques will, or should, make them more common in spawning, but like I said, I don't feel that's the issue.

Another issue regarding reward is world-drop-only gems. They're cool in concept but they really do lock away certain builds (and thus certain power) to those who trade aggressively or get really lucky. I'm neither. I love the idea of gems dropping but also feel that six classes should be enough to distribute them such that none are world-drop-only, all are assigned to a class. This way, if I want that multistrike or chain, I can either aggressively trade for it, get lucky OR level the appropriate class to the required quest reward and mule it. Skill-certainty certainty should be guaranteed for builds, if indeed it is not for all other items.

I accept that grinding for a 6L is a massive undertaking, especially one with great stats. I accept that 'crafting' in this game is the big grind and I don't mind that.

But when I finish a quest and none of the gems are even vaguely interesting to me, I feel cheated. Conversely, some classes get 3-4 great gems per quest and I'm left stuck choosing one.

I think allocating those wicked world-only drop to higher level quest rewards, one or two per class, would go a long way in returning some semblance of reward for play, not to mention class choice.

I know, a bit of a tangent, but related to the concept of 'rewarding play' I feel.

To iterate: I agree that general, non-party, non-IIQ/IIR, non-multiclient play can be very, very unsatisfying drop-wise.

I think this is actually a good idea. I have stopped taking quest rewards because I have a choice of picking between a bunch of gems I don't want.

I have also noticed the drops are most often junk, and I know this even before I identify them... Drops seemed to be much better in CB :/

Agree with all of this.

For me biggest issue is not even drop rates (they are crappy but you can play this kind of game for some time just for fun of killing monsters) but 'deepest item system in arpg game ever created"...

In PoE only EQ drops and gold (orbs) drops. Almost nothing more. Skillgems are basically worthless (they are like non-pgms in D2LOD i think) and maps are overall bad idea as a drop (they are also endgame drops).
No charms, sets to collect, no socketables, no crafting materials, no jewels, no monster parts, no relics, no runes, no ethereal items, no artifacts, no crafting recipes, only white trash and ocassionaly Jewelers Orb.
Also there is no real crafting and no real gear customization (only random gambling).
And we have 'deepest item system in arpg game ever created"...

(I dont want to GGG direct copy items form other hnS... i just want something). NAmes from other games are examples how other games spice up item systems and collecting part of the game.

Not only drop rate is i think lowest from all HnS games i ever played... there is not rly many thngs to collect in first place.

I know this game is not finished but....

we need changes and additions.

And IMHO item system need something more than 4 niche uniques per week. This game lacks collecting part that is so addicting in HnS games and CCG games (i read that CCGs was an inspiration).

You can collect currency but its like hoarding gold in D2/D3... you can collect uniques but gg with currenct drop rates.

Sadly GGG is so silent about this issues and they future plans. :/

PS. I play atm Titan Quest Immortal Throne.. its 100% opposite to pOE in terms of drops, rewarding player and itemization/collecting. So much to see, so much to collect... so much interesting items.
I want to see this in POE too.

"

Charan wrote:

I agree with all of this.

There have been simply too many occasions of me killing a rare monster in PoE since late CB to now that resulted in all white items. Either my luck's changed or that wasn't the case earlier in the CB.

I'm a solo player and almost never trade. I find the idea of trading pretty abhorrent and much prefer just giving stuff I don't need to friends in the hope (knowledge, so far) that they will reciprocate. I am not on here to play Virtual Economy and I really couldn't give a stuff what anything is worth.

I'd like to say that maybe it's just a case of burn-out or overexposure but I genuinely feel something has changed since CB regarding loot. Not the unique droprate -- I only got a few of those in CB and only have a few now -- but the general occurrence of rares from rares.

Do I think every rare monster killed should yield at least one rare? Absolutely. Some of them are right fuckers to kill and when you finally do it, and get only whites or maybe a blue and some common currency, it really sucks.

I concede that the game is as ever in progress and the introduction of more uniques will, or should, make them more common in spawning, but like I said, I don't feel that's the issue.

Another issue regarding reward is world-drop-only gems. They're cool in concept but they really do lock away certain builds (and thus certain power) to those who trade aggressively or get really lucky. I'm neither. I love the idea of gems dropping but also feel that six classes should be enough to distribute them such that none are world-drop-only, all are assigned to a class. This way, if I want that multistrike or chain, I can either aggressively trade for it, get lucky OR level the appropriate class to the required quest reward and mule it. Skill-certainty certainty should be guaranteed for builds, if indeed it is not for all other items.

I accept that grinding for a 6L is a massive undertaking, especially one with great stats. I accept that 'crafting' in this game is the big grind and I don't mind that.

But when I finish a quest and none of the gems are even vaguely interesting to me, I feel cheated. Conversely, some classes get 3-4 great gems per quest and I'm left stuck choosing one.

I think allocating those wicked world-only drop to higher level quest rewards, one or two per class, would go a long way in returning some semblance of reward for play, not to mention class choice.

I know, a bit of a tangent, but related to the concept of 'rewarding play' I feel.

To iterate: I agree that general, non-party, non-IIQ/IIR, non-multiclient play can be very, very unsatisfying drop-wise.

Your comments about gem rewards makes me completely think about the marauder. At a certain point, ever support reward includes Reduced Mana Cost support. Now there is no way I would EVER choose anything else, because that RMC can be traded efficiently for every other support not world-drop-only. Infact, I can normally sell it for about double the cost of other supports. So I feel I am cheating myself if I don't take it, and that if I do take it that I have to go do aggressive bartering to make sure it was worthwhile.

In the end I always end up building my builds gem setup prior to even starting the character, sometimes even the items.


As for drops, I pretty much just chuck an ID scroll on them and sell them, not even checking stats for 90% of them because I know I don't want them.

Not a high level base item for a weapon? Ditch. Not a high level base armour? ditch. Not a high level ring? ID and check. Lvl 60+ Ring? Chaos recipe storage. Rince and repeat with belts/amulets.

Agreed to this. And I think the grindy feeling is compounded by the absurd difficulty of the game (read: insane mob damage) and that only some specs will do really well to "grind" good.

I'm an altaholic who's lost the will to play alts. I know how my melee toons will perform before I play them. I know I need more life. I know chaos damage will rape me. I know my drops will likely suck and the good drops will not be for my build. I know my exalt would roll thorns, if I even found one.

So I find myself bored, playing less and less. Closed beta was not like that, not one bit. Hopefully something changes soon.