POE Heading to D3 Land...please reconsider

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deteego wrote:

Uh, hardcore games can cater to the masses, like Dark Souls did in Japan

The biggest problem with proponents of hardcore in PoE is they have no idea what hardcore actually means

Gotta agree. I see this term tossed around here more than a generic meme. And frankly, its fucking ridiculous.

Interesting thread. I was getting ready to post a new thread regarding the basic issues covered in this one. I have played RPGs since the early '80s (I cut my teeth playing D&D on a TI 99/4A). I have been playing PoE for close to a year and, like others have said, it is now down to the point that it is more of a drag than FUN -- and folks, if I can't have FUN I won't play the game!

Whether its balance or drops (I think it is a combination of both) it doesn't matter. As an example, in my current game I am lvl 56 Maurader, Cruel, Act 3 and have quit playing because suddenly it ceased being fun. Not because of the "action" or graphics, or story line, etc. but because it is a real drag at this point to make any headway. And this is the secord or third time since the "final" wipe. I too prefer Solo and rarely join a party and I don't enjoy the Tradeing.

Whatever the devs want is their choice but why not make it a FUN game for casual and hardcore players alike???? How about an option to play "Easy", Normal" or "Hard.

GGG has a great game but if it ain't FUN it ain't gonna last.

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JoannaDark wrote:

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deteego wrote:

Uh, hardcore games can cater to the masses, like Dark Souls did in Japan

The biggest problem with proponents of hardcore in PoE is they have no idea what hardcore actually means

Gotta agree. I see this term tossed around here more than a generic meme. And frankly, its fucking ridiculous.

Its always annoyed me too, especially as I don't play hardcore, never have wanted to because I don't want to start all over again for one mistake and I dno't always have time to play often to level up again.

But I've played the game for a long time, very much enjoy it, and find it challenging ni a good way some of the time (not lightning thorns/flicker/especially flicker discharge).

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thepmrc wrote:

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Well, here is the dictionary definition of Hardcore used as an adjective since you seem to want to go there.

1. Intensely loyal; die-hard: a hard-core secessionist; a hard-core golfer.
2. Stubbornly resistant to improvement or change: hard-core poverty.
3. Extremely graphic or explicit: hard-core pornography.


1. unswervingly committed; uncompromising: a hard-core conservative.
2. pruriently explicit; graphically depicted: hard-core pornography.
3. being so without apparent change or remedy; chronic: hard-core unemployment.

By these definitions I would say that someone who plays slots all day is most certainly hardcore.... I don't think this definition implies any sort of skill based competitiveness. I would also say that based on the definition of hardcore, poe did not mislabel their game. Me thinks you don't know what hardcore really means.

Yes, someone who plays slots all day would be a 'hardcore slots player.' It does not mean that slots is a 'hardcore game.'

See the difference?

Well, in what way is it not a 'hardcore' game by this definition of hardcore? In what way is PoE not hardcore? In what way is any of this relevant? (hint: its not relevant at all)

A 'hardcore' game can be anything really... as long as it isn't catering to the masses (changing core elements to appease all players), that is, if you base the definition of 'hardcore' off this dictionary definition.. again, its irrelevant.

You're right, the developers are stubbornly resistant to change and the game can be pruriently explicit in some depictions. I guess that makes POE a 'hardcore' game.

Now we're just talking in circles. How about instead of asking me to prove negatives, show in what world can POE be considered a 'hardcore' game? The fact that some people spend a lot of time on the game does not make the game itself hardcore.

I think what would help is make the mediocre leveling gear much more common and effective. This way it keep the truly rare (6l, uniques, etc) rare, and the players satisfied.
Basically:

1. Make mid-level rares much more common, especially from bosses. Make decent affixes roll more. This way players actually feel a sense of progression as they play through the game.

2. Make 4S and 4l MUCH more common. They shouldn't ever take more than 10-15 fusings to achieve, since they are more or less mandatory as you approach endgame.

3. Possibly even implement tiered crafting orbs, such as chaos or exalted, that works only on low level gear, so that people actually can craft before endgame to get their gear.

Now instead of everything being rare, item would actually have rarity in correspondence to their functionality.

Even if we could prove, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that PoE is not hardcore, not even 1%...

What would we achieve? :)

We'd probably get a mass whining about how 'hardcore' it is, and that we're too casual to understand it.

Oh, wait, we already do get that. Uh... Nothing I guess.

Since there's nothing to achieve in proving PoE not being hardcore or whatever, the topic was (basically) that PoE is not rewarding enough, that trading is better than drops etc. AmIrite?

Because if that's the issue, there was an excellent earlier post, which I am too lazy to look for, that explained perfectly why in PoE trading will forever be better than loot.

And there is also the issue that with more rewards&drops, come more and more good&great items, which basically stay forever in Default's economy.

Why?

Because there is no item sink. There's no item obsoletion. Great items remain great for GGG knows how long.

And these items will accumulate... and accumulate... and yes, the economy of the game will suffer.

To top all this, people will get good gear easier and faceroll the limited content faster, which if you followed the map system, you'd understand that GGG tries to prevent real hard.

What I'm trying to say with all of these ideas is that the problem is way, way deeper in PoE and it cannot be solved with more rewards. I am repeating these things the 3rd or 4th time I believe, because you know, people would keep just asking "moar rewards", and ignore what would follow :)

And yes, you, the complaining player, that only wants to get nice drops and be rewarded for your (maybe limited) time with shinies, don't really care about this all. You get your stuff, play&enjoy the game, leave to play another one when you get bored, and the repercussions of your actions are left behind.

But GGG cannot leave anywhere, if you know what I mean. They're stuck with PoE now. So they probably do care about economy and other nonsensical crap for the usual player.

PS: Do not understand me wrongly. I have little sympathy for how PoE works right now. But just making it more rewarding is a cheap patch, because this wound is serious and you can't just stitch it together in a hurry. I'm very pessimistic even for "deep surgery", because it would pretty much change a lot in PoE and people would still be unhappy - the people that would argue that PoE is not "wounded" in any way ;)

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jdr37 wrote:

How about an option to play "Easy", Normal" or "Hard.

There is already option, its called "normal", "cruel" and "merciless" :P

Undon, its not so muhc that trading > not trading, this will always exist.

Its that trading >>>>> crafting/rewards/drops

It was quite fun in closed beta, only trading when you wanted twink/build enablers/something difficult to make (a RRGB 4l ES based item for example, so much easier to buy it).

But it feels like a chore now, almost all of my builds I have twinked, and primarily traded for gear. Used to trans/alch wands quite often in CB to upgrade my wand, now its just not worth it because it will cost me 4-5 chaos, when for 1 chaos I can buy one with the best spell dmg for my level, and probably even get a decent cast speed or something else on it too, not just the spell dmg.

Which to me kind of says its better to just do that rather than have the hassle of getting this for myself, since I can still do the trans/alch for other things, but for specific gear I will always end up buying it.

Same with getting a 4l. I don't buy non-4l gear unless its very good, and even then I estimate its worth about 1-2 gcp to 4l a non-4l, which means if its worth about 1 gcp, its not even worth buying.



Thats just sad that back in CB I could sink fusings into things happily, but now because of the large amount of items, its just not worth doing it