POE Heading to D3 Land...please reconsider

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Nagisawa wrote:

I am constantly stunned by how many people believe that PoE is 'hardcore'. As so many people pointed out RNG is not 'hardcore'.

There's a reason most E-Sports have one or two Arenas, tops. Because it reduces randomness. It's like American Football. The league has only ONE size of arena, 100 yards, the goal posts are at a regulation distance, and at a regulation height. The only random element are the players, their skill and how they're feeling that day.

PoE has nothing at an exact size, the maps change, the loot changes, even the players are different from one an other.

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thepmrc wrote:

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Nagisawa wrote:

I am constantly stunned by how many people believe that PoE is 'hardcore'. As so many people pointed out RNG is not 'hardcore'.

There's a reason most E-Sports have one or two Arenas, tops. Because it reduces randomness. It's like American Football. The league has only ONE size of arena, 100 yards, the goal posts are at a regulation distance, and at a regulation height. The only random element are the players, their skill and how they're feeling that day.

PoE has nothing at an exact size, the maps change, the loot changes, even the players are different from one an other.

I think you are confusing competitive with hardcore. They are not synonymous.

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E-sports, football, and organized sport in general are competitive sports. PoE is not really competitive, outside of the ladder grind, which is more about time investment than anything else. Trying to use the 'hardcore' label as a way to justify making the game competitively balanced does not really work due to there being no definitive definition for 'hardcore' when it comes to gaming. Its all about interpretation.

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Nagisawa wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

E-sports, football, and organized sport in general are competitive sports. PoE is not really competitive, outside of the ladder grind, which is more about time investment than anything else. Trying to use the 'hardcore' label as a way to justify making the game competitively balanced does not really work due to there being no definitive definition for 'hardcore' when it comes to gaming. Its all about interpretation.

So, you mean that my belief that the word Hardcore pertains to the whiny, overly self-entitled, egomaniacal, ragequiting babies who want everything given to them on a silver plate is accurate?

Huhn, who knew.

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thepmrc wrote:

....if that is your interpretation of hardcore then yes. Its completely subjective. My subjective opinion based on your statement would be that you are a complete idiot though.

In the developers eyes 'hardcore' seems to mean massive time sink with virtually limitless room for improvement, given that you sink infinite time into the game. I have NEVER heard LOL referred to as a 'hardcore' game, a competitive game yes, but not 'hardcore'. If that is what you consider 'hardcore' though, I can't say you are wrong. In the end it doesn't matter in the slightest. You cannot try to justify change based on the fact the game is advertised as 'hardcore' due to the fact that you cannot say definitively what is meant by that statement.

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

....if that is your interpretation of hardcore then yes. Its completely subjective. My subjective opinion based on your statement would be that you are a complete idiot though.

In the developers eyes 'hardcore' seems to mean massive time sink with virtually limitless room for improvement, given that you sink infinite time into the game. I have NEVER heard LOL referred to as a 'hardcore' game, a competitive game yes, but not 'hardcore'. If that is what you consider 'hardcore' though, I can't say you are wrong. In the end it doesn't matter in the slightest. You cannot try to justify change based on the fact the game is advertised as 'hardcore' due to the fact that you cannot say definitively what is meant by that statement.

Your entire argument is that 'hardcore' is subjective. Not really. Definitions of words are rarely ever that subjective. Sure, semantics can change from person to person, but almost all words have an established definition or connotation that highly restricts the freedom which people can use them. I can never call the sky purple even though blue and purple are close on the color spectrum.

Now tell me, in which definition of 'hardcore' would POE count as hardcore? Your entire progress is almost entirely restricted to RNG. You need good RNG for maps. You need good RNG for items. You need good RNG for currency. You need good RNG to roll maps. You need good RNG to roll items. You need RNG to craft. You need RNG to deal damage, crit, magic find, etc.

In what universe does "hardcore" mean, "I surrender all control of my character into a random number generator"? By your definition, then slot machines are hardcore. Be sure to argue with real gamblers that slots are 'hardcore'. Let's see how far you get.

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Try reading? I explained exactly what definition of 'hardcore' I feel poe is trying to be.

I believe their 'hardcore' label is simply referencing the massive time sink, which I would say the RNG is a major part of. Not saying I necessarily agree with them, but I don't like throwing around stupid buzzwords like 'hardcore' either.

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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Try reading? I explained exactly what definition of 'hardcore' I feel poe is trying to be.

I believe their 'hardcore' label is simply referencing the massive time sink, which I would say the RNG is a major part of. Not saying I necessarily agree with them, but I don't like throwing around stupid buzzwords like 'hardcore' either.

I read just fine.

Yes, you gave a 'definition.' The definition is inherently flawed because no one would consider 'time sink' the definition of 'hardcore.' I drew the analogy of using the same definition in reference to slot machines. There are people who dump their whole lives into slot machines, but it doesn't make them 'hardcore.' In fact, the fact that anyone can do it makes it NOT hardcore. Anyone who knows anything about Vegas will know that.

I also went to say that words may have slightly different meanings to different people, but there are established definitions that people must follow. As mentioned, I could never—accurately, at least—call the sky green or purple, even though they may be close on the color spectrum to blue.

So in essence, you're saying that POE's definition of hardcore is only accurate if they wrongly apply the word 'hardcore'. Which is exactly my point in the first place, that GGG mislabeled their game.

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thepmrc wrote:

Well, here is the dictionary definition of Hardcore used as an adjective since you seem to want to go there.

1. Intensely loyal; die-hard: a hard-core secessionist; a hard-core golfer.
2. Stubbornly resistant to improvement or change: hard-core poverty.
3. Extremely graphic or explicit: hard-core pornography.


1. unswervingly committed; uncompromising: a hard-core conservative.
2. pruriently explicit; graphically depicted: hard-core pornography.
3. being so without apparent change or remedy; chronic: hard-core unemployment.

By these definitions I would say that someone who plays slots all day is most certainly hardcore.... I don't think this definition implies any sort of skill based competitiveness. I would also say that based on the definition of hardcore, poe did not mislabel their game. Me thinks you don't know what hardcore really means.