POE is ACTUALLY dying not the drama queen kind, but the actual kind... From Developer Hubris

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Bleu42 wrote:
A bunch of garbage biased D2R simping



Dude. I played D2 back in the day, and I have vivid memories of it all.

Almost everything you say is conjecture/bias, or simply not true.

Tal rasa Set for Sorceress literally 1 shots any content in game.
Almost every set does the same.

BOTD and HOTO, etc are all literally overpowered, and 2 second all content while taking no risk at all.

Enigma just a joke.

PVP = Leave town and die in .2 seconds and drop an ear to the first person out the gate killing you as soon as you cross into map.

Hell Soloable.

Only difficult items to get: Better than Um Runes. Those who get them: Gods.

Same exact content over and over. 1000 Baal Runs/ Mephisto runs followed by 1000 Forge resets and 1000 Cow levels dropping nothing by XP. Yes Pls.

D2: No Expansions. No Resets. No Difficulty increases.

D2R didn't make you start over either; Atm if I went back I'd have my perfect linked Sorceress and my perfect linked Barb from the BEGINNING.

You're basically simping for the ideology that you've already won the game and are playing EZ mode.
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Mikrotherion wrote:
Regarding the drop vs. crafting issue:

I prefer drops to crafting. Determistic(y) crafting items from the ground up that can be BiS seems to be against what an aRPG is about (although, as Phrazz noted, aRPGs may have evolved into this, so that it is only a problem for people that still more or less play by the Diablo ruleset).

However, I think that in a game with items as complex as PoE there is no real other way. There are just too many mods and base items to actually have a real chance at getting better items to drop after a certain time.
So it feels like crafting is needed.

I mean, in Diablo 1, which I still prefer over any other Diablo, there were normal, magic and unique items.
There was a manageable mod pool and no crafting - because sooner or later you would find that King's Axe of Haste on a good base. Or one of the few really good unique items (I'm not sure, but I think in Diablo 1 there were no no-brainer unqiues, because all of them had some downside, much like we had in PoE for some time).

In Diablo 2 there was a kind of crafting, but it was more like using an Essence. You'd get a rare item with some guaranteed mods.
And there was one "Orb of Alchemy" per difficulty in Act I via a Charsi's quest.
But still the mod pool was manageable and you could find great gear or make it yourself in LoD with runes - which I would not call crafting. It's rather a kind of divination card.
And there was the upgrade recipe - this was really a great thing. A unique with good mods but on a normal base? You could upgrade it (was quite expensive IIRC) to an adequate base and use it in Hell difficulty (with some exceptions).

In PoE, however, the mod pool is so vast (and doesn't get thinned out, so that you can still roll low tier mods on highlevel bases) that without crafting it's really difficult to get really good items. So we ended up with quite a convoluted semi-deterministicoid crafting system and anyone not interested in learning how to (ab)use it feels a bit left out with drops.

IMO.


Actually POE has pretty reliable good drops from certain sources, like Conquerors. Conquerors almost always drop an influenced item with several T1 or T2 mods if your tier of map is high enough.

Yesterday I had some Arcane Gloves drop with 218 ES, Chaos damage over time, and a T1 Resist. I benched a Crit Mod on it and sold for 4 Ex.

The BiS Helmet for TS right now is literally an Asenath's Chant with an Additional Projectile from Tornado Shot.

With the exception of Necromancers, almost every class/skill has a competent Unique helmet.

In fact, most builds will still have 2-3 uniques, even if crafting.

I'm also finding that this league, crafting is a LOT easier. GGG removed about half the useless crafting mods, and moved troublesome prefixes to suffixes, where they'd cause less problems (+1 Spell +1 Minion is almost guaranteed on a wand now because DoT mods were moved to suffixes).

I rolled a Unset ring to +3 gem/level 22 HoT/T1 Life on Spell Hit, and another I managed to Aspect of Cat/level 22 HoT/+1 min Frenzy/3% Frenzy on kill, 40% Reduced Curse effect, Life, and then Craft on Lighting/Fire Damage, with just Chaos orbs.

If the drops became better and more frequent, to a significant ammount. I would quit. I would be bored with the league much quicker.


The statements made by many about SSF is not true, and its often those who dont even play SSF that make them.


Many many people love the game as it is. You dont need to change a game to make everyone fit with it, that is an impossible task. Many people might wish other games were different or better, that doesn't mean you actualy should change them. The core playerbase is always returning, and there is a reason for that.
Last edited by Downfall89#2050 on Nov 21, 2021, 2:20:14 AM
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Phrazz wrote:
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Foreverhappychan wrote:
does that matter?


Not really. I've written a long essey here, but I've deleted it. I'll cut it down to this:

"ARPG" existed (sparely) as a genre before Diablo. And I think it's sad when people are using Diablo as a ruleset for what belongs in an ARPG 25 years after the first diablo game. With that atitude, nothing evolves. And if other games are not allowed to be different, why aren't everyone playing the original? Maybe they are, what the hell do I know.

Now I'm going to play a shooter, and get irritated by every single mechanic that makes it different from Wolfenstein 3D. Like jumping :D



Dude, Borderlands presequel gave me serious vertigo. I do like my looter shooters to have fairly realistic jumping/vaulting. Parkour!

And yknow. Dont agree re ARPG. We had rpgs. We had action games. But it was really D1s shift from turn based to real-time that gave us what we most commonly call the click and kill ARPG.

As for evolution, it's not always a good thing. For example, TikTok. ^_^


If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.

I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period.
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rekikyo wrote:
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Bleu42 wrote:
A bunch of garbage biased D2R simping



Tal rasa Set for Sorceress literally 1 shots any content in game.
Almost every set does the same.

BOTD and HOTO, etc are all literally overpowered, and 2 second all content while taking no risk at all.



Hey man, could you send links to Sorc builds that one-shot Hell Baal, Hell Mephisto (in particular on 8 man party size?). Same with BOTD and HOTO doing Uber in 2 seconds. Was thinking about D2 lately, would love to play some cool builds like that.
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MECHanokl wrote:
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rekikyo wrote:
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Bleu42 wrote:
A bunch of garbage biased D2R simping



Tal rasa Set for Sorceress literally 1 shots any content in game.
Almost every set does the same.

BOTD and HOTO, etc are all literally overpowered, and 2 second all content while taking no risk at all.



Hey man, could you send links to Sorc builds that one-shot Hell Baal, Hell Mephisto (in particular on 8 man party size?). Same with BOTD and HOTO doing Uber in 2 seconds. Was thinking about D2 lately, would love to play some cool builds like that.


Sigh. You got me. They don't quite 1 shot. But the fight is so lopsided you can't lose and still happens relatively fast. BOTD and HOTO CAN instant kill. All you do with HOTO is set up a whole field of hammers before the fight even starts. BoTD can take 1/6th of Baal's HP per hit.

On the flip, there's no way for you to die. You can face tank whatever they throw.
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Downfall89 wrote:
If the drops became better and more frequent, to a significant ammount. I would quit. I would be bored with the league much quicker.


The statements made by many about SSF is not true, and its often those who dont even play SSF that make them.


Many many people love the game as it is. You dont need to change a game to make everyone fit with it, that is an impossible task. Many people might wish other games were different or better, that doesn't mean you actualy should change them. The core playerbase is always returning, and there is a reason for that.



"Many people love the game as it is" AS it is rn? it was in 3:15?, 3:13?, 2:0? launch? Cause yeah many people loved the game the way IT WAS, the way they annouced, the way it was played for 4+- years. Not this travesty we have rn where devs are so lost they want to change everything each league and going back cause they didnt liked it or want to pursue a "vision" that is burried in 3 years of useless powercreep stuff they added to the game.

For the vision of mr wilson to work they need to rollback at least 2 or 3 years of patches. Then it will work. But as I said it seems the dev team is as divided as we are atm and not even they know what they want for the game.
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rekikyo wrote:


BOTD and HOTO, etc are all literally overpowered, and 2 second all content while taking no risk at all.


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rekikyo wrote:

Sigh. You got me. They don't quite 1 shot. But the fight is so lopsided you can't lose and still happens relatively fast. BOTD and HOTO CAN instant kill. All you do with HOTO is set up a whole field of hammers before the fight even starts. BoTD can take 1/6th of Baal's HP per hit.

On the flip, there's no way for you to die. You can face tank whatever they throw.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfaknDW0TKA

So I found this video on youtube, this man does speedrun of Uber Tristram, he does the final fight in 27 seconds... Clearly not even in the same realm as 2 second "all content" clears you mentioned earlier. He also uses full restore potions, so not a facetank (although he is very tanky).

So yeah man if you could share these awesome record breaking builds, would love to try them out.
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Foreverhappychan wrote:
Dude, Borderlands presequel gave me serious vertigo. I do like my looter shooters to have fairly realistic jumping/vaulting. Parkour!

And yknow. Dont agree re ARPG. We had rpgs. We had action games. But it was really D1s shift from turn based to real-time that gave us what we most commonly call the click and kill ARPG.

As for evolution, it's not always a good thing. For example, TikTok. ^_^


I agree about the jumping. But I want to at least be able to jump in shooters, even though "the original shooter" didn't have jumping. Some might even say that adding crafting to the ARPG genre is as natural as as adding jumping to a shooter. We all know Blizzard DID add crafting in form of the cube, which they probably felt was a natural step from D1, via D2 into D2:LoD?

PoE is designed with crafting in mind from the ground up, through every orb, affix and weighting. It can't hardly be a surprise they expanded on it - and keep expanding on it. F2P gimmick? Sure, but we do see MANY players loving the crafting system. Addicts? Who the hell knows. I love parts of the crafting system. We see a VERY split playerbase on the matter. Just asking "Harvest: Good or bad?" will create a rather large debate.

Anyhow, I don't feel like the original car should decide what a car is today. I don't feel like the original shooter should decide what a shooter is today. I don't feel like the "original" ARPG (Hack'n Slash) game should decide what an ARPG is today.

So I will keep saying that item drops in PoE sucks ass. Maybe as a result of crafting being too strong. Do those elements make it any less of an ARPG? Of course not. It just makes the game a little bit less fun for me, personally, while making the game more fun for others.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
Last edited by Phrazz#3529 on Nov 21, 2021, 6:59:52 AM
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rekikyo wrote:

I can 3 sec phase 75 Izaro with my Tempest shield build (I know that's weak vs end game farm builds, but this is Tempest shield we're talking about), face tank a t12 Omnifear, and do most T15/16 bosses, and all Conquerors (albeit painstaking with Tempest shield as a damage),



I dont know what you are doing I killed most end game content (not feared or hidden) with a meme tempest shield build because I leveled the elementalist im playing right now with tempest shield as its main dps "for the lulz".

Tempest shield has such absurd high lvl20+ base damage that you can easily one shot most bosses with a big whoping ignite with it.

Edit:
You can easily build tankyness in PoE right now its not expensive and the only thing you need to do it is game knowledge.
I feel 90% of those threads that pop up here constantly would disapear if people would actually know their way around this game.

Last edited by Zerber#2188 on Nov 21, 2021, 7:25:39 AM

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