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Pow3rFr34K wrote:
Maybe that's the issue? Maybe the players defending it are the ones who want to be able to reach 100 just by spamming T10 maps?
That concept died years ago, when spamming T10 Strand maps was still a thing and you could triple the mob density with the oldschool sextant blocking and sustaining T16s was rough.
Thats long gone tho.
Running and sustaining T16s all day every day stopped being challenging years ago. So limiting XP gain to T16 maps changes nothing. This is what players are doing and have been doing for years.
I cant even begin to understand why limiting XP gain to T16s w/o death penalty is supposed to stop anyone or make more challenging or whatever phrase you were using. Thats a laughable concept to begin with.
What you are describing is another Tuesday in the office, except its easier in absence of the death penalty because now I can really spice maps up and run them blindfolded w/o consequences.
Last edited by Orbaal#0435 on Oct 19, 2021, 2:30:24 PM
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Posted byOrbaal#0435on Oct 19, 2021, 2:30:14 PM
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Pow3rFr34K wrote:
At this point these people who keep saying "he just wants it so he can level easier" and whatnot are making me want to come back for Scourge, get to 95 within a week and prove that leveling isn't elite or hard. I've done it before and I sure as hell will do it again. I've got spare time and I'm so down to do it, I won't even be playing my comfort which is a Duelist in order to prove my point.
Will I die? Probably.
Will that deter me from leveling? Nah, it will suck but I'll still reach my level goal.
Will it prove once and for all that all this talk about how reaching 95 is some elite accomplishment is complete nonsense? No. The reason will be simple - people won't change their view on it despite all of the proof in front of their eyes.
I just truly hope people won't have a kneejerk reaction and actually read the proposed changes and realize that what I'm aiming for isn't an easier time leveling. It's strictly to reduce the frustration while dying while making leveling past 90 an actual challenge. I don't want to make it easier. I haven't said "make getting to 100 easier". I said "losing exp is an arbitrary system which sucks. It's better to ensure you don't lose exp if die for whatever reason but to also make people unable to gain any exp from doing content which they are too strong for".
Maybe that's the issue? Maybe the players defending it are the ones who want to be able to reach 100 just by spamming T10 maps? Is that "prestige" and "elite"? Not at all. If you try to make it sound like it is then you are actually arguing against your own point.
Lol but you won't get to 100. That's entirely the point :P I should mention that your profile is also private and it's likely you've never done it to begin with yet you're advocating to make getting to it easier or as you put it "less frustrating".
You know thing's that tend to be hard also tend to be frustrating?
Last edited by Grauthrim#2960 on Oct 19, 2021, 2:41:33 PM
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Posted byGrauthrim#2960on Oct 19, 2021, 2:39:52 PM
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Pow3rFr34K wrote:
At this point these people who keep saying "he just wants it so he can level easier" and whatnot are making me want to come back for Scourge, get to 95 within a week and prove that leveling isn't elite or hard. I've done it before and I sure as hell will do it again. I've got spare time and I'm so down to do it, I won't even be playing my comfort which is a Duelist in order to prove my point.
Will I die? Probably.
Will that deter me from leveling? Nah, it will suck but I'll still reach my level goal.
Will it prove once and for all that all this talk about how reaching 95 is some elite accomplishment is complete nonsense? No. The reason will be simple - people won't change their view on it despite all of the proof in front of their eyes.
I just truly hope people won't have a kneejerk reaction and actually read the proposed changes and realize that what I'm aiming for isn't an easier time leveling. It's strictly to reduce the frustration while dying while making leveling past 90 an actual challenge. I don't want to make it easier. I haven't said "make getting to 100 easier". I said "losing exp is an arbitrary system which sucks. It's better to ensure you don't lose exp if die for whatever reason but to also make people unable to gain any exp from doing content which they are too strong for".
Maybe that's the issue? Maybe the players defending it are the ones who want to be able to reach 100 just by spamming T10 maps? Is that "prestige" and "elite"? Not at all. If you try to make it sound like it is then you are actually arguing against your own point.
Exactly!
By following your thread from the beggining is quite clear what you are suggesting and cheers for your patience for make detailed enough for anyone understand. But, some rush to assume it is about "not be able to" or "no skilled enough, get gud mentality". When the real issue is that death penalty is a plain boring, arcaic and unninventive mechanic to promove "challenge/competitiveness".
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Posted byFhrek#4437on Oct 19, 2021, 3:07:28 PM
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Pow3rFr34K wrote:
At this point these people who keep saying "he just wants it so he can level easier" and whatnot are making me want to come back for Scourge, get to 95 within a week and prove that leveling isn't elite or hard. I've done it before and I sure as hell will do it again. I've got spare time and I'm so down to do it, I won't even be playing my comfort which is a Duelist in order to prove my point.
Will I die? Probably.
Will that deter me from leveling? Nah, it will suck but I'll still reach my level goal.
Will it prove once and for all that all this talk about how reaching 95 is some elite accomplishment is complete nonsense? No. The reason will be simple - people won't change their view on it despite all of the proof in front of their eyes.
I just truly hope people won't have a kneejerk reaction and actually read the proposed changes and realize that what I'm aiming for isn't an easier time leveling. It's strictly to reduce the frustration while dying while making leveling past 90 an actual challenge. I don't want to make it easier. I haven't said "make getting to 100 easier". I said "losing exp is an arbitrary system which sucks. It's better to ensure you don't lose exp if die for whatever reason but to also make people unable to gain any exp from doing content which they are too strong for".
Maybe that's the issue? Maybe the players defending it are the ones who want to be able to reach 100 just by spamming T10 maps? Is that "prestige" and "elite"? Not at all. If you try to make it sound like it is then you are actually arguing against your own point.
And so we reach the inevitable conclusion to our once-a-week death penalty thread, where everyone descends into the classic logical fallacies and nothing further of substance is said.
In this post alone, we've got goalpost moving, a red herring, straw manning, equivocating, tu quoque, more goalpost moving, more equivocating, a false dichotomy, followed by more straw manning. Literally NOTHING in this post gives an objective, fact-based reason for the removal or change of the death penalty; in 7 pages we've completely failed to go beyond "I don't like it."
Which, as I stated on the first page in a reply you conveniently chose to ignore, is an irrelevant argument because the death penalty is a FAIL STATE. If you liked it when it happened, it wouldn't be doing its job.
See y'all next week in the NEW death penalty thread!
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Pow3rFr34K wrote:
Maybe that's the issue? Maybe the players defending it are the ones who want to be able to reach 100 just by spamming T10 maps? Is that "prestige" and "elite"? Not at all. If you try to make it sound like it is then you are actually arguing against your own point.
That's kinda possible, providing you hate yourself enough to do it. I remember some guy doing it in ssfhc and posting the stats on reddit, his gurlfriend even made him some special cake with "100" on it in the end, hehe.
"Path of Exile's engine is currently modern, lean and fast." - Chris Wilson, September 19th, 2019
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Posted bydW2005#0568on Oct 19, 2021, 5:40:48 PM
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Grauthrim wrote:
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Crackmonster wrote:
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Grauthrim wrote:
Heard it all before man. Literally a thousand times have I seen posts like yours with variations on what they think is the best way to address a total non issue. It's there for a reason, it stops players advancing purposely. If you want no death penalty learn how to avoid it, it's that easy imo. I just see your suggestions as pointless. There isn't an issue to be solved.
What you dont comprehend is the simple truth that the death penalty in the poe form causes far more damage to the game than it does good. You might not care yourself, but a lot of people do and far more have left the game already with that being one of the big annoyances.
So you can tell yourself all you want it doesn't really matter, but it only shows you lack of understanding. It's not complicated at all.
Facts.
If you open your mind and listen to the data the world is imputting you, for the last 7 years its very rare there is not at least 1 post or more on the front page of feedback about death penalty. That should tell you a lot, if you are listening to the data of life.
It is likely that death penalty is the single most complained about aspect of poe - at least i can't think of anything more complained about. It is not for no reason. Because how it is, makes many players feel bad. Real bad.
Your opinion isn't facts. It's an opinion. The death penalty exists for a reason. It removes 99% of the shit tier builds from circulation. Literally creating a build sink. If you can't think up a build that can get to level 100 or push yourself to do it, get better at the game. Learn more about PoE.
Just because you dont understand it, doesn't mean it's not obvious.
Facts.
Also, let people have fun with shit builds if that's what they want, they will never compete they will either play more the same everyone are playing or leave so its a lose lose. But you didn't think that far did ya.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster#7709 on Oct 19, 2021, 9:31:36 PM
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Posted byCrackmonster#7709on Oct 19, 2021, 9:30:22 PM
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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:
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Pow3rFr34K wrote:
At this point these people who keep saying "he just wants it so he can level easier" and whatnot are making me want to come back for Scourge, get to 95 within a week and prove that leveling isn't elite or hard. I've done it before and I sure as hell will do it again. I've got spare time and I'm so down to do it, I won't even be playing my comfort which is a Duelist in order to prove my point.
Will I die? Probably.
Will that deter me from leveling? Nah, it will suck but I'll still reach my level goal.
Will it prove once and for all that all this talk about how reaching 95 is some elite accomplishment is complete nonsense? No. The reason will be simple - people won't change their view on it despite all of the proof in front of their eyes.
I just truly hope people won't have a kneejerk reaction and actually read the proposed changes and realize that what I'm aiming for isn't an easier time leveling. It's strictly to reduce the frustration while dying while making leveling past 90 an actual challenge. I don't want to make it easier. I haven't said "make getting to 100 easier". I said "losing exp is an arbitrary system which sucks. It's better to ensure you don't lose exp if die for whatever reason but to also make people unable to gain any exp from doing content which they are too strong for".
Maybe that's the issue? Maybe the players defending it are the ones who want to be able to reach 100 just by spamming T10 maps? Is that "prestige" and "elite"? Not at all. If you try to make it sound like it is then you are actually arguing against your own point.
And so we reach the inevitable conclusion to our once-a-week death penalty thread, where everyone descends into the classic logical fallacies and nothing further of substance is said.
In this post alone, we've got goalpost moving, a red herring, straw manning, equivocating, tu quoque, more goalpost moving, more equivocating, a false dichotomy, followed by more straw manning. Literally NOTHING in this post gives an objective, fact-based reason for the removal or change of the death penalty; in 7 pages we've completely failed to go beyond "I don't like it."
Which, as I stated on the first page in a reply you conveniently chose to ignore, is an irrelevant argument because the death penalty is a FAIL STATE. If you liked it when it happened, it wouldn't be doing its job.
See y'all next week in the NEW death penalty thread!
That's real cute mate. The problem with you here is following your logic, is that there is no difference between a good and a bad "failsafe".
And so you end up saying nothing relevant and showing 0 insight, not addressing the psychological implications which are at the core of the issue.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
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Posted byCrackmonster#7709on Oct 19, 2021, 9:35:34 PM
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Crackmonster wrote:
That's real cute mate. The problem with you here is following your logic, is that there is no difference between a good and a bad "failsafe".
And so you end up saying nothing relevant and showing 0 insight, not addressing the psychological implications which are at the core of the issue.
...Except that's not what I said. At all.
Nice slippery slope strawman double fallacy supercombo, btw. Does this actually work?
But unintentional humor aside, why should I re-post everything I already said on the first page of this thread, exactly zero of which has been refuted since, just for the benefit of people who want to join the conversation late and are too lazy to do some reading and learn the context of the discussion?
My point was, OP (and others) don't like losing exp on death. Okay, well, they're not supposed to like it, because they're not supposed to die. They got anything else? No? Okay then, we're done here.
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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:
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Crackmonster wrote:
That's real cute mate. The problem with you here is following your logic, is that there is no difference between a good and a bad "failsafe".
And so you end up saying nothing relevant and showing 0 insight, not addressing the psychological implications which are at the core of the issue.
...Except that's not what I said. At all.
Nice slippery slope strawman double fallacy supercombo, btw. Does this actually work?
But unintentional humor aside, why should I re-post everything I already said on the first page of this thread, exactly zero of which has been refuted since, just for the benefit of people who want to join the conversation late and are too lazy to do some reading and learn the context of the discussion?
My point was, OP (and others) don't like losing exp on death. Okay, well, they're not supposed to like it, because they're not supposed to die. They got anything else? No? Okay then, we're done here.
That's literally all you said, kid. Scream all you want, it doesn't change the fact.
As i said, following your logic there is not difference between a good and a bad penalty, because youre not supposed to like it, which means if you don't like it it's working as intended. You need more clarity? Okay let me give you a very simple example. When you die you lose two random items from your gear that are permanently destroyed. You could use your argument as claim it made sense.
Except it doesn't, and its a sweeping blanket statement that actually is closer to a strawman and something irrelevant because it does not connect to the topic. Youre just loosely arguing about whether or not a penalty is supposed to be enjoyed, going off on that tangent of irrelevancy - basically youre arguing that the meaning ofthe word penalty is negative, and no one has ever doubted that. And now you will see that you have just performed the dictionary definition of a strawman, conjuring up a point which is true in itself but irrelevant to the topic.
I will tell you how emotional you are, so listen. You don't agree death penalty is a problem, therefore you are refuting logic and simple stating conviction, and conjuring up arguments to fill in the blanks with blanket statements. Revealed by you attaking those who got a problem with death penalty.
As i said, you said nothing.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Last edited by Crackmonster#7709 on Oct 19, 2021, 11:14:49 PM
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Posted byCrackmonster#7709on Oct 19, 2021, 11:05:43 PM
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You also said absolutely nothing dude. You're another one of those players who have never actually hit level 100 complaining and trying to defend other players who've never hit 100 in a big circle of whining about how they will never hit 100. Inserting > mundane reason here < about how they will never reach 100.
You didn't state any facts, you didn't make any claims of pure logic, you just clapped the same circle jerk statements everyone else did and then made it out like you've proved anything.
Seriously, why are all of these players advocating changing the death penalty when they've never actually achieved the thing they want to change? It's there for a reason.
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Posted byGrauthrim#2960on Oct 20, 2021, 3:35:52 AM
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