Death penalty - a thorough suggestion

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Pow3rFr34K wrote:

People are saying "dying and losing exp feels f*cking bad". That's it.

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Pow3rFr34K wrote:

Nobody is suggesting to make leveling easier, just literally less frustrating.

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Pow3rFr34K wrote:

Not only that but I literally made a suggestion to ensure that the only way to get to 100 is to commit to doing harder content. If you believe that 95% of the community is doing t16 maps and clearing them all, hell, if you believe 50% of the community does that, then you are so delusional it actually hurts.

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Pow3rFr34K wrote:

Not everything you consider as "easy" is viewed the same way by others.

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Pow3rFr34K wrote:

Despite all of this, again, I'm not advocating for everyone to get to 100 without putting effort into it

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Grauthrim wrote:

You're kind of making this funny for me now. You're implying all kinds of things but it says nothing against what I'm actually talking about. This is a competitive game, it always has been in both soft and hardcore. When I say this is a "hardcore" game I mean it's for a very niche crowd and always has been. They don't make the effort to sell it to everyone for a damn good reason.

Imply what you like, it still doesn't change my opinion or that of many others who have argued exactly the same things for years and years. Unfortunately for you and fortunately for me, I doubt it's something they will ever address or change and I damn well hope it stays that way.

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Nomancs wrote:

Majority didn't run this game after downloading, want to count them too? Majority SHOULDN'T do everything in this game. This game is not balanced around casuals. Casuals are not core audience.

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Dr_Death wrote:

I agree with the post. And if you are concerned about keeping the prestige aspect to it, why not make leveling past a certain point (say level 97) based on achievements and not on basic killing. Or make the harder achievements (killing Sirus A8, Maven, uber elder, uber atziri, etc) worth a relatively large amount of XP, and the regular killing have a very large penalty so people can't just pay for poorjoy or breach maps to grind to 100 which certainly is no true achievement anyway in my eyes. The player who can faceroll the top content is the one who deserves to reach 100, not the one who goes with friends to run endless breach maps.

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dW2005 wrote:

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Dr_Death wrote:

I agree with the post. And if you are concerned about keeping the prestige aspect to it, why not make leveling past a certain point (say level 97) based on achievements and not on basic killing. Or make the harder achievements (killing Sirus A8, Maven, uber elder, uber atziri, etc) worth a relatively large amount of XP, and the regular killing have a very large penalty so people can't just pay for poorjoy or breach maps to grind to 100 which certainly is no true achievement anyway in my eyes. The player who can faceroll the top content is the one who deserves to reach 100, not the one who goes with friends to run endless breach maps.

What will stop people in trade leagues doing paid sirius exp runs, or uber eldor exp runs and whatnot in that case? "Carry" will still insta-phase them, i guess, and "spectators" who bought tickets will still get the exp, hehe.

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But you are suggesting it. Nearly everyone, almost 100 people on my friend list, run ONLY t14-16 in first days of the league. And nothing lower after that.

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Pow3rFr34K wrote:

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dW2005 wrote:

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Dr_Death wrote:

I agree with the post. And if you are concerned about keeping the prestige aspect to it, why not make leveling past a certain point (say level 97) based on achievements and not on basic killing. Or make the harder achievements (killing Sirus A8, Maven, uber elder, uber atziri, etc) worth a relatively large amount of XP, and the regular killing have a very large penalty so people can't just pay for poorjoy or breach maps to grind to 100 which certainly is no true achievement anyway in my eyes. The player who can faceroll the top content is the one who deserves to reach 100, not the one who goes with friends to run endless breach maps.

What will stop people in trade leagues doing paid sirius exp runs, or uber eldor exp runs and whatnot in that case? "Carry" will still insta-phase them, i guess, and "spectators" who bought tickets will still get the exp, hehe.

Addressing both posts at once: great in theory, terrible execution. As dW2005 stated - there will still be carries being done, it will just be on something else. Here's the thing: the base of the game is fine! The thing which feels counterintuitive and, well, horrible, is losing exp for dying. That's it. I've gone over of why it feels bad and, quite frankly, I still can't believe that people seem to misunderstand this - sometimes your death will be out of your control. When that happens, not only do you die which is demoralizing, you will also get an extra punishment "just because".

To anyone who says that this isn't the case, do you have an idea of how many people play this game without having an i7, 32GB RAM and with a RTX3070? Do you know how many people need do disable sound, not turn it down but disable it through the txt file?! Or how many people don't have a 300MB fiber connection (the only good thing about my country)? The death penalty is literally punishing players not due to their lack of skill but due to their IRL setup. Don't believe me? Please go and try to find threads or reddit posts or youtube videos about optimization. I've already done it since my PC used to be unable to run WoW on low and there is so much info on how to optimize the game that it's actually insane. Oh, the worst thing? Those changes don't fix all of your issues. Even after disabling sound and lowering everything I still had massive FPS drops on Sirus, especially during his beams. It was so bad that I ended up choosing not to do him entirely. I can only imagine what would've been vs Maven at that point.

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But you are suggesting it. Nearly everyone, almost 100 people on my friend list, run ONLY t14-16 in first days of the league. And nothing lower after that.

Again, no, I am not suggesting to make leveling easier. Less frustrating =/= easier my guy. You're just using a strawman at this point. Also, wanna know why your friends are doing t14-16 maps? Because this is the community you are a part of. It's so easy for me to say that all of the people who I play WoW with are Mythic raiders and use that as a bias to say "the majority of the players are doing the hardest content, therefore it isn't only the top 1% of players who do Mythic raiding but around 50%". You think you are a part of the majority in this game? Tough luck buddy - nobody who is doing the hardest end-game content is a part of the majority, whether it is in WoW, League, DOTA 2, D3, PoE, Hades, FFXIV, D2, etc. A game lives and dies by the mid-tier players, not by the hardcore. If that were the case, Wildstar wouldn't be deader than Michael Jackson.

Here are some great examples for games which are hard but not frustrating:
Cuphead - every boss has predetermined moves & a lot of the issues which plague PoE do not affect Cuphead at all;
Hades - pretty low skill floor and easy to get into, extremely high skill ceiling;
Super Meat Boy - if the game was as poorly optimized as PoE it would be considered trash, however, because you don't have random lagspikes and don't need to water down the game completely, your deaths are your own fault. Deaths there can be frustrating but they aren't for the reasons the ones in PoE are;
Bloodborne - one of my all time favorite games. The difficulty of the game is extremely high but you know that you dying = you messing up 99.99% of the time. The other 00.01% is a sneeze or mind lapse or something random like that.

All in all, it's obvious you've completely made up your mind and believe in what you say. No matter what gets presented to you, you'll never accept the fact that there are people who play this game and don't agree with you that death shouldn't be as punishing in Softcore. If you truly believed that death should be meaningful, you'd be playing Hardcore and not trying to make other players' experience more frustrating because you don't have the balls to go into Hardcore like the true top 1% player you are.

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Pow3rFr34K wrote:

Here are some great examples for games which are hard but not frustrating:
Cuphead - every boss has predetermined moves & a lot of the issues which plague PoE do not affect Cuphead at all;
Hades - pretty low skill floor and easy to get into, extremely high skill ceiling;
Super Meat Boy - if the game was as poorly optimized as PoE it would be considered trash, however, because you don't have random lagspikes and don't need to water down the game completely, your deaths are your own fault. Deaths there can be frustrating but they aren't for the reasons the ones in PoE are;
Bloodborne - one of my all time favorite games. The difficulty of the game is extremely high but you know that you dying = you messing up 99.99% of the time. The other 00.01% is a sneeze or mind lapse or something random like that.

All in all, it's obvious you've completely made up your mind and believe in what you say. No matter what gets presented to you, you'll never accept the fact that there are people who play this game and don't agree with you that death shouldn't be as punishing in Softcore. If you truly believed that death should be meaningful, you'd be playing Hardcore and not trying to make other players' experience more frustrating because you don't have the balls to go into Hardcore like the true top 1% player you are.

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Fhrek wrote:

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Pow3rFr34K wrote:

Here are some great examples for games which are hard but not frustrating:
Cuphead - every boss has predetermined moves & a lot of the issues which plague PoE do not affect Cuphead at all;
Hades - pretty low skill floor and easy to get into, extremely high skill ceiling;
Super Meat Boy - if the game was as poorly optimized as PoE it would be considered trash, however, because you don't have random lagspikes and don't need to water down the game completely, your deaths are your own fault. Deaths there can be frustrating but they aren't for the reasons the ones in PoE are;
Bloodborne - one of my all time favorite games. The difficulty of the game is extremely high but you know that you dying = you messing up 99.99% of the time. The other 00.01% is a sneeze or mind lapse or something random like that.

All in all, it's obvious you've completely made up your mind and believe in what you say. No matter what gets presented to you, you'll never accept the fact that there are people who play this game and don't agree with you that death shouldn't be as punishing in Softcore. If you truly believed that death should be meaningful, you'd be playing Hardcore and not trying to make other players' experience more frustrating because you don't have the balls to go into Hardcore like the true top 1% player you are.

So many fun and challenge games!
Remind me of a buddy of mine that was bound to Deathless 100% run on Celeste and Hard Cuphead. So many times we died running it making analises and strategies, all fun and enjoying.
In the end he did the Hard Cuphead, but not Celeste yet we still liking those games and trying it for fun sometimes. One the most rewarding to me is my annual TW3 (+DLCs) Death March Deathless runs.

Those kind of game proves the game could be hard/challenging and not boring at all.

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Grauthrim wrote:

If PoE is boring to you, why are you here complaining about it? Wanting it to be changed. If a game is boring, why bother with it. Go play something else. Or just get a life already. I don't find this game boring at all.

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Fhrek wrote:

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Grauthrim wrote:

If PoE is boring to you, why are you here complaining about it? Wanting it to be changed. If a game is boring, why bother with it. Go play something else. Or just get a life already. I don't find this game boring at all.

Chill out buddy, don't need to cry! Peeeeeeaaaace!