Don't concede an inch to Reddit.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

I would agree with the OP. Catering to the vocal, entitled and tantrum throwing demands of a pack of spoiled manlets on Reddit is, at best, a bad way to handle game balancing. And at worst, you are chaining yourselves to the whims of those Vorici would call, quote, "Selfish Malcontents."

You basically have to treat these sorts of people as a parent would a small child. If you give in to their outbursts or foot-stomping fits, you will only get more of that behavior in the future. If they know it works, that's all you'll see from them.

Caving to mobs of rabble is a good way to put your game development cycle and community firmly in the hands of angry toddlers, who by their nature, will never be satisfied. They'll ruin your game with their petulance - and, in the end, blame you for doing it.

And in a way, they'd be correct. Just not for the reasons they think.

You should probably play the league before giving your hot take, might hold more weight. I don't think you understand what people are upset about.

Again, not addressing anything aforementioned.

So youre one of those "Harvest sucks" because its not an item editor people ? I played last league and made dumb shit like this



while sitting in a pumpkin patch all day. Wow, much very, very interactive. Very healthy for the game to get gear entirely from one portion of the game completely negating all other avenues of gameplay for loot. Nothing screams "fun game" like a sandbox item editor.

Crafting doesnt suck, peoples impatience to learn the game sucks. Ask any single person who crafts, myself included, and they will literally tell you the harvest nerfs only affected the top end of players. The literal 1%ers. Outside of that its virtually at the exact same power level it was besides a very, small handful of things.

Anyways onto the the "well itll just rot in standard anyways". First off, why should standard be flooded by mirror worthy pieces made in league ? It shouldnt, a lot of players still play there, that would be even more economically ruining that league falling into standard as is. Second off, why should you be able to make something that good in a temporary league if "its just going to rot in standard anyways". Wouldnt just good enough be perfectly acceptable ? I think most would agree "good enough" is exactly what Temporary leagues are about. Why should someone who invests less time, be rewarded equally to someone who doesnt ? They shouldnt, it literally makes no sense. Especially since this isnt a multiplayer game and your time investment and progression has no actual affect on anyone else. Meanwhile rewarding people more for playing less creates the obvious situation of "games too easy, too unrewarding, GGG never makes cool uniques anymore", AND ruining the economy.

The game is perfectly playable on a budget, especially on a meta build for the casuals who are playing this game 1-3 hours a day.

I see a lot of people make claims of "well harvest is build diversity because normally you cant get these items". I would love to know what build absolutely needs bob-the-builder harvest gear. Theres not a single modifier on influenced items thats exceedingly build enabling that you cant get elsewhere. The fact that i cant think of many if not ANY situations where that statement is true is very telling. Again, another complaint based on "build diversity" which is actually just baseless complaining because someone cant easily get what they want.



Youre sitting here wondering why ground loot sucks, why uniques suck, why people dont interact with the economy much if not at all, why GGG designs monsters to one shot you, etc, when its right in front of you.

I didnt have to play for 4 years to see where the game way going because they had already been making those changes little by little when i played, which created this cascading effect of making things entirely redundant thanks to cater to people who dont know shit about game design. It doesnt take a genius to predict the results of game design changes that have been made before in other games with the same cause and effect.

Point me to the "valid" criticism being made that opinions formed with the basis of objective facts, because i dont see them.

Its perfectly fine to complain about a game, so long as its done in a way thats constructive and objective. For example, you see all these people still whining about harvest, yet anyone who knows how to craft says harvest is perfectly fine and that will show you its perfectly fine by showing the items they made, how they made it, etc. Thats no longer a reasonable criticism if youre ignoring the actual fact based mathematics in regards to the way current crafting functions. As many love to spout "crafting is entirely RNG", that is easily disproven by anyone with crafting knowledge.

No ones denying the blanket nerf sucks, what people are denying is that the reason people are complaining is "build diversity" because there are still a shit ton of blatantly strong, low cost builds that function just fine. Again, just because you lost damage doesnt mean your build isnt playable. What theyre actually complaining about is their build got nerfed, they dont like it, its not fair. One who likes the game, genuinely likes the game, is not going to quit over minor nerfs like this, especially older players whove literally been nerfed way harder than this in the past (and we didnt get week 1-2 adjustments, we had to deal with that shit).

Do you see people using non-metas filling up the forums with complaints about this stuff ? The answer is no and the reason is obvious (and they were impacted the most and literally have the most reason AND right to comaplain out of anyone). When i look at peoples character sheets who are complaining about these things, probably 90% are playing or have been playing the exact same meta build every league. So yeah, when i see people whine about build diversity but they have 10 characters which are nothing but the same 1-3 meta builds, its clear they dont care about build diversity because it never existed for them in the first place. They want to play whats overpowered and if they cant play that or if its "less powerful" the world has ended and the games dead.

Path of Exile history repeats itself yet again, this is nothing compared to the fall out of the original cast on crit nerfs and changes and that actually have mathematically backed statistics on how many players were using it by GGG themselves, which was something in the range of 60% of all players. The same people who got nerfed back then cried build diversity too while literally everyone and their mother was playing a singular skill gem. The sky is falling yet again and the game will recover yet again as it progresses and evoles into a better game. I remember 4 years ago when i left, i said similar. "game is gonna die just watch", oh boy look how stupid i look when its never been bigger after returned to the game.

The fact of the matter is, the games in the state it got to because they catered too much and rather than doing their job as game developers, they let random nobodies try and do their jobs for them. This is the result, and now they want to fix that. Theres no disputing that fact.

"

jerot wrote:

You should probably play the league before giving your hot take, might hold more weight.

I play the permanent leagues. I dislike the quarterly betas. But thank you for unit testing and identifying bugs so that the game works properly when it's released for me to enjoy

Also, these changes were propagated to standard, so my take is as valid as anyone's. If you want to disagree with my points and opinions, that's your right - but you don't get to simply dismiss someone who is playing the current game, with the current set of changes, who has an opinion every bit as valid as yours.

Here is the thing - since you play standard there is no way for you to prove that you are actually playing the game with the new changes. At least when someone with a bunch of challenges and league characters 90+ says something, you know they have the time and experience to back it up. How can you get this kind of insurance from people in standard?

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

Here is the thing - since you play standard there is no way for you to prove that you are actually playing the game with the new changes. At least when someone with a bunch of challenges and league characters 90+ says something, you know they have the time and experience to back it up. How can you get this kind of insurance from people in standard?

That is, in my opinion, a really silly argument. If I'm so out of touch, and don't know what I am talking about - from lack of playing - then you will surely have no problem disproving my ascertains. Yes?

I've not only been playing, but playing melees, archers, minion builds, a trapper and a curse witch as I work on enchanting flasks with Hillock and level a side-project reaper necro, so I can prove that you can clear t-16 content at a reasonable speed with the build.

If you don't believe me, oh well. I simply relate my experiences. Disbelieve at your leisure.

No I can't. They are your opinions. My point is that you cannot be a reliable authority if you have no way of proving that you actually play enough to experience the changes.

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

No I can't. They are your opinions. My point is that you cannot be a reliable authority if you have no way of proving that you actually play enough to experience the changes.

And you cannot prove that I do not. And since you're hurling the accusation, the burden of proof is on you. Also, argument by appealing to credentialism is a fallacy.

If what I'm saying is so out of touch, so outmoded, then it should be easy - trivial really - for you to defeat my arguments soundly on their merits.

:)

But I can prove that I myself do so by default I am a more reliable narrator than you. Its just how it is.

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

But I can prove that I myself do so by default I am a more reliable narrator than you. Its just how it is.

To yourself? Why yes. To others? Not so much. To the audience, we stand on the strength of our arguments - not on appeals to authority.

Let me show again why all this started

"

You should probably play the league before giving your hot take, might hold more weight.

You have less weight because you cannot provide proof that you play the game with the new changes. Its that simple. So don't get angry when this is pointed out by others.