Don't concede an inch to Reddit.

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

You have less weight because you cannot provide proof that you play the game with the new changes. Its that simple. So don't get angry when this is pointed out by others.

You are incorrect and making a fallacious argument.

Novel incoming, last one for real. I'll try to touch on more you've mentioned here and elaborate my points constructively.

Harvest shouldn't be an item editor, it would be better off more like lab enchants to where it isn't tradable. Trading harvest enchants (Trading finished items is fine) was a problem they brought up in the manifesto, and what did they do? They lowered the rate of finding crafts so badly you are encouraged to trade to engage with the system. I know you weren't there, but there were, no joke, up to ten times as many crafts per grove. It probably feels a lot better not knowing what it was like before. You could realistically farm maybe 1 or 2 of each different augment type over the course of a league. Where now it's lucky if you find 1.

Originally it used to have a lifeforce system so you had to choose which of the crafts to use, you didn't get them all, they removed that. They could have brought it back, un-nerfed the rate slightly, and the mechanic would be almost identical to how it plays now in terms of number of usable enchants per grove, but you would have more options of which enchants those were. (Interactive choices, gameplay, fun) It wouldn't feel like if you need a particular T4 seed that you need to join a discord for it. Or going 10 groves without seeing the flavor of reroll you're looking for.

You also weren't limited to reroll crafting influence gear, which makes the system pretty lame by comparison through later map progression. I personally think they should have tweaked tags to fix overly deterministic outcomes rather than removing the ability to craft on the item at all.

I had a normal and quad tab full of in-progress crafting projects by the end of Ritual, I was running heists and temples for bases, using bench, essences, fossils, and conqueror exalts to work on items. I was paying more attention to drops on the ground and loot was more exciting, because that one-off pretty decent item was usually salvageable into something worth money or usable on an alt. (While fun, that should probably remain toned down, the power curve was higher because of many mid-tier crafts)

Limiting tradability would mean less of these trades happening outside the trade window, and fewer players being scammed.

Harvest opened up more build options because you could fresh start just about anything that league and use quality of life crafts to patch holes, again without needing to trade for gear or currency to reroll strict socket colors. That was the best part of harvest, not needing to trade and making your own gear through playing instead of trading.

It was also an extremely popular league with many players claiming it was by far their favorite, myself included. And that meant a healthy economy to where you could find gear for niche builds at a reasonable price if you did want to trade.

The underlying problem it solved that exists to this day is that dozens of skill gems are under-tuned (or a handful are over-tuned) and there should be more work bringing things into line from both ends. The power increase and ease of gearing brought more builds into a level of quality that people considered playable. If the playing field was more even, we could have good build diversity and challenge. But that takes many incremental buffs and nerfs over a long period of time. Not sweeping changes that decimate some skills and ignore others. (RIP Spellslinger)

How many times have you played a league for all 3 months, finishing 40/40 challenges, reached level 100, and still continued to play the character because you were having fun finding small upgrades to your gear while doing random maps? Not currency to buy upgrades, actually taking gear you found and putting it on your character. I fail to see how that aspect of the system is unhealthy for the game.

The problem was targeted annulments were more powerful than Eternal Orbs (can be used retroactively to fix items), and players having access to unlimited crafts through trading. Only one of those problems is fixed in the current system.

I prefer the more powerful but self-found system because it encourages playing the game, not the website. Harvest nodes should be removed from maven trees altogether to discourage repetitive farming strategies.

You could not create perfect items without abusing discord trading and I never did, you can see the gear on my level 100, its mostly self-crafted.



I'm not too impatient to know if a desired item cost between 3 and 7ex to craft, but I can buy it finished for 3 directly, there's no point in crafting it. Gear trickles down, depending on the supply and demand it isn't always economical to craft, especially later in a league. I'll admit this is less of a problem for me as I tend to avoid trading, I don't play SSF so I can help out friends though. But I've ran into it, and seen enough people complain to where I know there is an issue.

I'll admit, its a harder problem to solve. But I like the idea of having more crafting options that aren't tied to existing currency, because then you aren't instantly comparing the price of making an item versus buying it. And you aren't tempted to trade the craft to buy the upgrade someone else found/made. I wish they would go back and expand on previous league mechanics more often, the systems are so modular its a shame they remain largely static. I think the essence and incursions were good examples of this.

I'm not wondering about any of those things, ground loot sucks because of trade. With the number of players in the game now, there are hundreds of thousands of players capable of finding gear for your spec who aren't playing the same build as you, low demand high supply.

Uniques suck because they haven't kept up with gear inflation or they got completely destroyed by nerfs, depending on the item in question.

I know people aren't engaging with the economy this league because it's already mostly dead.

Frankly I think its a poor design that the only limiting factor on trade is the built in inconvenience of needing to whisper people and join hideout. It's meant to add friction to keep people from buying all their gear instead of finding it. (which is happening anyways) And then every other system with tradable pieces from splinters to maps encourages players to trade more, and experience even more friction.

And GGG cares about non-league standard like they care about Hardcore and SSF, it isn't what they consider the main game mode and they don't balance around them. If you enjoy it, great for you, just don't expect any special treatment. It has always been a dumping ground as they experiment with leagues. They made the decision they wanted players to keep their progress including no-longer available items and rolls as a trophy of their accomplishments.

If anyone's rolling fresh characters with self-found gear on standard I absolutely respect their input on the patch. But if you're starting out with everything completed for you already, how are you supposed to judge how the difficulty ramps? And if your gear is better than anything possible on league, how could you make a fair comparison?

I've already gone through every complaint I've had and heard about the patch, and its much more than build diversity. Ultimately people are not having fun with the game, either their favorite builds no longer work, the endgame is too much of a slog, or they feel it is less rewarding compared to the previous leagues (which it is.)

Some people play the game only for the challenge and love it, that's fine too. But what makes path of exile the best ARPG on the market is the freedom you have to create your character and play anyway you wish.

This isn't a should they nerf things or not debate. I agree with much of what was laid out in the manifesto. I just feel the implementation was bad and was timed exceptionally poorly. And a lot of players seem to agree.

Objectively bad is the technical problems we keep having intermittently from texture streaming (Thanks for finally fixing it) to invisible or T-posing mobs, broken endgame bosses (sirus). And especially the disconnect in communication within the team at GGG, the mana changes should have been front and center in the manifesto. It magnified the outrage as people were already in a sour mood from the manifesto, and then the patch notes hit and doubled it.

I died to Hailrake, and I loved it.

What you have done with the game this patch has been great. It is just sad to see so many people not even trying to adjust. (But why would you when you can just throw a tantrum, roll over and quit, am I right?)

"

Iwinsen wrote:

I died to Hailrake, and I loved it.

What you have done with the game this patch has been great. It is just sad to see so many people not even trying to adjust. (But why would you when you can just throw a tantrum, roll over and quit, am I right?)

Yes. And if GGG caves to the people kicking their feet and rolling around, squealing on the Super-Market floor, this will be the only sort of feedback they receive from here on out.

Why?

Because the temper-tantrum worked. And even a toddler is keen enough to understand that - make a scene in the market and a bad parent will give them some treats to shut up.

You get more of what you incentivize. If GGG gives them a sucker, they'll get nothing but a non-stop-chain of fits every time they make a balance change - and they'll deserve it.

.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

"

Iwinsen wrote:

I died to Hailrake, and I loved it.

What you have done with the game this patch has been great. It is just sad to see so many people not even trying to adjust. (But why would you when you can just throw a tantrum, roll over and quit, am I right?)

Yes. And if GGG caves to the people kicking their feet and rolling around, squealing on the Super-Market floor, this will be the only sort of feedback they receive from here on out.

Why?

Because the temper-tantrum worked. And even a toddler is keen enough to understand that - make a scene in the market and a bad parent will give them some treats to shut up.

You get more of what you incentivize.

GGG is not my parent. And a wise man admits when he made a mistake not digs himself a bigger hole.

The service that I paid for is not there anymore. The game that I paid for is not there anymore, and GGG does not give refunds for 6 year old purchases.

So what I and other like me can do now? Give me single player so I can pick the version of the game that I want to play and you can do whatever you want with it going further.

What most of you hole diggers don't understand is this point. I'm not saying you can't enjoy the game as it is. You're happy with the changes that's great.

Now give me the option to play the game too. If these are the oncoming changes, then I'm ok with stopping the updates here, and I'll enjoy it without updates for years to come.

But this? I ain't playing this. It's not the gaming experience that I paid for, and enjoyed playing.

"

drklrd wrote:

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

"

Iwinsen wrote:

I died to Hailrake, and I loved it.

What you have done with the game this patch has been great. It is just sad to see so many people not even trying to adjust. (But why would you when you can just throw a tantrum, roll over and quit, am I right?)

Yes. And if GGG caves to the people kicking their feet and rolling around, squealing on the Super-Market floor, this will be the only sort of feedback they receive from here on out.

Why?

Because the temper-tantrum worked. And even a toddler is keen enough to understand that - make a scene in the market and a bad parent will give them some treats to shut up.

You get more of what you incentivize.

GGG is not my parent. And a wise man admits when he made a mistake not digs himself a bigger hole.

The service that I paid for is not there anymore. The game that I paid for is not there anymore, and GGG does not give refunds for 6 year old purchases.

So what I and other like me can do now? Give me single player so I can pick the version of the game that I want to play and you can do whatever you want with it going further.

What most of you hole diggers don't understand is this point. I'm not saying you can't enjoy the game as it is. You're happy with the changes that's great.

Now give me the option to play the game too. If these are the oncoming changes, then I'm ok with stopping the updates here, and I'll enjoy it without updates for years to come.

But this? I ain't playing this. It's not the gaming experience that I paid for, and enjoyed playing.

You didnt buy a game, you bought micro transactions.

Do you understand what a "Supporter Pack" is ?

Its actually kinda comical that you really just used the "i paid for this game" argument, when you didnt buy the game and the money you invested into it with supporter packs was purchased knowing fully that the game radically changes regularly.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

"

Iwinsen wrote:

I died to Hailrake, and I loved it.

What you have done with the game this patch has been great. It is just sad to see so many people not even trying to adjust. (But why would you when you can just throw a tantrum, roll over and quit, am I right?)

Yes. And if GGG caves to the people kicking their feet and rolling around, squealing on the Super-Market floor, this will be the only sort of feedback they receive from here on out.

Why?

Because the temper-tantrum worked. And even a toddler is keen enough to understand that - make a scene in the market and a bad parent will give them some treats to shut up.

You get more of what you incentivize.

If I disagree with you, it isn't a tantrum and it isn't kicking and screaming, It's a disagreement. themoreyouknow.jpg

Let's all try to be adults here and stop resorting to baseless hyperbolic speech and disrespecting others opinions.

Many of us have walked away (myself included), our opinions are valid...and so are yours. Time will show if these changes were mistakes and if so, how damaging this patch will be to the lifespan and sustained playerbase of the game.

Good, bad, we'll see... but we have access to metrics on one half of the spectrum (SteamAPI provided users for steam regardless of if you want to disregard facts) and GGG has metrics for their launcher. The developers will decide in the end if this change was worth it for their vision, their company, and for their playerbase.

They should listen to their playerbase, and as a company, listen to their metrics as their main business (last I checked) is still the business of selling a product (Supporter packs and MTX) and making money.

Ciao

"

drklrd wrote:

GGG is not my parent. And a wise man admits when he made a mistake not digs himself a bigger hole.

The service that I paid for is not there anymore. The game that I paid for is not there anymore, and GGG does not give refunds for 6 year old purchases.

So what I and other like me can do now? Give me single player so I can pick the version of the game that I want to play and you can do whatever you want with it going further.

What most of you hole diggers don't understand is this point. I'm not saying you can't enjoy the game as it is. You're happy with the changes that's great.

Now give me the option to play the game too. If these are the oncoming changes, then I'm ok with stopping the updates here, and I'll enjoy it without updates for years to come.

But this? I ain't playing this. It's not the gaming experience that I paid for, and enjoyed playing.

I sympathize to a degree. I have a Windows XP Sandbox on my PC so I can play my Starcraft, Warcraft III, Diablo and Diablo II in the versions I prefer. I wholesale refuse to use Blizzard's oneline-only gateway. This is the advantage of actually owning physical copies of the software. The move towards "rent-ware" has largely destroyed that old, wonderful paradigm.

However, PoE has always been rent-ware. At no point was it a stand-alone product. They never marketed themselves as such, and didn't become rent-ware - as opposed to Blizzard, who transformed their formerly stand-alone products into online only disasters. So you knew what you were getting into when you started paying GGG money.

That said, I would happily pay $60.00 or even $80.00 for a stand alone, offline only, single player version of PoE. I would enjoy having that quite a lot.

"

GrandmasterEternius wrote:

If I disagree with you, it isn't a tantrum and it isn't kicking and screaming, It's a disagreement. themoreyouknow.jpg

Let's all try to be adults here and stop resorting to baseless hyperbolic speech and disrespecting others opinions.

Many of us have walked away (myself included), our opinions are valid...and so are yours. Time will show if these changes were mistakes and if so, how damaging this patch will be to the lifespan and sustained playerbase of the game.

Good, bad, we'll see... but we have access to metrics on one half of the spectrum (SteamAPI provided users for steam regardless of if you want to disregard facts) and GGG has metrics for their launcher. The developers will decide in the end if this change was worth it for their vision, their company, and for their playerbase.

They should listen to their playerbase, and as a company, listen to their metrics as their main business (last I checked) is still the business of selling a product (Supporter packs and MTX) and making money.

Ciao

Some people are being reasonable, this is true. However, there are more than a few behaving exactly like spoiled children - and in many cases, far worse.

Those who are behaving as such are the target of my completely reasonable and accurate comments. Those acting like adults and making their concerns heard are quite obviously not the target of my commentary, nor should they consider themselves such. Nor does that really need any elaboration, as those acting like children, on some level, know it.