Don't concede an inch to Reddit.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

"

GrandmasterEternius wrote:

If I disagree with you, it isn't a tantrum and it isn't kicking and screaming, It's a disagreement. themoreyouknow.jpg

Let's all try to be adults here and stop resorting to baseless hyperbolic speech and disrespecting others opinions.

Many of us have walked away (myself included), our opinions are valid...and so are yours. Time will show if these changes were mistakes and if so, how damaging this patch will be to the lifespan and sustained playerbase of the game.

Good, bad, we'll see... but we have access to metrics on one half of the spectrum (SteamAPI provided users for steam regardless of if you want to disregard facts) and GGG has metrics for their launcher. The developers will decide in the end if this change was worth it for their vision, their company, and for their playerbase.

They should listen to their playerbase, and as a company, listen to their metrics as their main business (last I checked) is still the business of selling a product (Supporter packs and MTX) and making money.

Ciao

Some people are being reasonable, this is true. However, there are more than a few behaving exactly like spoiled children - and in many cases, far worse.

Those who are behaving as such are the target of my completely reasonable and accurate comments. Those acting like adults and making their concerns heard are quite obviously not the target of my commentary, nor should they consider themselves such. Nor does that really need any elaboration, as those acting like children, on some level, know it.

Then perhaps it would be wise to not make an us versus them statement summing up all concessions made for the recent patch due to those who "kicked and screamed". Perhaps you didn't mean it that way and just meant to say, "Those who were toxic about the balance of the game", however you did not portay yourself that way to me personally.

I've seen both sides behaving as you say, no more, no less. For every thread 'against or for' the changes, I've seen people give clear rational opinions and others just trolling using ad hominem with no regard to discussion. There is no guilty crowd here, just bad actors.

Even then, I can only interpret what your saying as that you feel those of us who are unhappy with the patch are acting more unruly and horrible then those who are for it. If that is your perception that is fine, however, I humbly disagree as i've been in numerous threads where there are people calling everyone spoiled brats for not wanting (in their perception) a harder game.

People just have a hard time it seems not showing their bias when they try to propose an opinion, especially one as touchy as this game's current patch.

On a side note I find it a bit humorous that Reddit used to be a cesspool of whiteknights where the slightest disparaging remarks to POE were downvoted into oblivion no more then a year ago. Now it has turned more negative and suddenly the community of POE players on reddit's opinions are no longer valid to many...just an observation from an old dog.

I'm not really here to prove a point anymore, just figured I'd throw in my two cents however valuable they may or may not be. I meant no disrespect, just wanted to give you a viewpoint from someone who wasn't one of those "bad actors". A perspective from a guy who is genuinely disappointed in the game's direction and the drama it has caused in the POE community.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

You didnt buy a game, you bought micro transactions.

Do you understand what a "Supporter Pack" is ?

Its actually kinda comical that you really just used the "i paid for this game" argument, when you didnt buy the game and the money you invested into it with supporter packs was purchased knowing fully that the game radically changes regularly.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/55086

Semantics much?

"

Sure, we’ll make less money per paying customer than our competitors, but we know the community will appreciate it". We intend to maintain Path of Exile for at least ten years, so it’s important that we have a good relationship with our players.

"

We are members of this gaming subset, and by specifically catering to it we will provide a great gaming experience on an affordable budget.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/customer

"

1: one that purchases a commodity or service

Can I get my investment back? Where's my ROI? I'll get out of your way then.

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GrandmasterEternius wrote:

Then perhaps it would be wise to not make an us versus them statement summing up all concessions made for the recent patch due to those who "kicked and screamed". Perhaps you didn't mean it that way and just meant to say, "Those who were toxic about the balance of the game", however you did not portay yourself that way to me personally.

I believe statements were fine as they were. I stand by them and will continue to make them.

"

GrandmasterEternius wrote:

I've seen both sides behaving as you say, no more, no less. For every thread 'against or for' the changes, I've seen people give clear rational opinions and others just trolling using ad hominem with no regard to discussion. There is no guilty crowd here, just bad actors.

I feel there is more then enough people to reasonably call it a crowd.

"

GrandmasterEternius wrote:

Even then, I can only interpret what your saying as that you feel those of us who are unhappy with the patch are acting more unruly and horrible then those who are for it.

Arguably, yeah. Based on what I am seeing here - and at the cesspit that is Reddit - I am comfortable drawing the conclusion.

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GrandmasterEternius wrote:

If that is your perception that is fine, however, I humbly disagree as i've been in numerous threads where there are people calling everyone spoiled brats for not wanting (in their perception) a harder game.

You're free to disagree or not. And you are correct, there are several bad actors simply trolling to pick at frayed nerves and loose scabs. But they are in the minority, and are only as effective as people allow them to be.

I.E. don't feed the trolls. GGG has been pretty good about slapping around the really blatant jerks. Lots of deletions and edits both ways. Mostly deserved.

"

GrandmasterEternius wrote:

People just have a hard time it seems not showing their bias when they try to propose an opinion, especially one as touchy as this game's current patch.

All opinion is biased by definition. All people are biased. Always have been. Forever shall be. Bias is not inherently good or bad. What's "bad" is perpetuating the lie that anyone can be unbiased. Better than the bias is known, out in the open, then everyone can come to a conclusion, with the understanding of how each person's bias is coloring their persuasion.

Humans are not, nor will they ever be, robots.

"

GrandmasterEternius wrote:

On a side note I find it a bit humorous that Reddit used to be a cesspool of whiteknights where the slightest disparaging remarks to POE were downvoted into oblivion no more then a year ago. Now it has turned more negative and suddenly the community of POE players on reddit's opinions are no longer valid to many...just an observation from an old dog.

They were getting what they wanted. Now they're not. A small child will wax poetically about a parent that gives them Pizza for supper. They will not be so pleasant the following evening when you give them liver and lima beans.

Also, with online media, you see see social pressure come into play in ways that remind me of fish schools. Peer pressure is a strange creature, and some people cave very easily to it.

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GrandmasterEternius wrote:

I'm not really here to prove a point anymore, just figured I'd throw in my two cents however valuable they may or may not be.

You made a thoughtful post. It was worth reading and commenting on.

"

GrandmasterEternius wrote:

On a side note I find it a bit humorous that Reddit used to be a cesspool of whiteknights where the slightest disparaging remarks to POE were downvoted into oblivion no more then a year ago. Now it has turned more negative and suddenly the community of POE players on reddit's opinions are no longer valid to many...just an observation from an old dog.

Slight correction, those critical of the game have always been giving GGG a mean eye for shifting their communication to the "goodie-two-bootlickers circlejerk machine". It's just the way reddit works, as soon as some sentiment, whatever it is, gains enough traction it tends to drown everything else.

So, reddit is out, and about trusting the metrics, well they can't really trust metrics for a transitional product in the worst possible state of unfinishedness, it's practically scaffolds and wiring sticking out everywhere.

So, the wisest choice is to shut it all out, believe in what they're doing and give it their best shot. I don't really expect any meaningful communication from them until next league.

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drklrd wrote:

Semantics much?

"

Sure, we’ll make less money per paying customer than our competitors, but we know the community will appreciate it". We intend to maintain Path of Exile for at least ten years, so it’s important that we have a good relationship with our players.

"

We are members of this gaming subset, and by specifically catering to it we will provide a great gaming experience on an affordable budget.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/customer

"

1: one that purchases a commodity or service

Can I get my investment back? Where's my ROI? I'll get out of your way then.

What you quoted there is PR speak, the important thing is in terms of use you accepted when you downloaded the game. It's pretty common for a f2p online game, and the tldr goes: "We can shut the service tomorrow if we want", and "We can delete your account right now, no reason required". When you invest in a game like this, you pretty much trust the company not to abuse those terms.

I always looked at my packs as month to month rent. They entitle me a place to live, but I don't own the place. I can submit my complaints to the landlord , suggest ways to make the property better, etc... but in the end , They only owe me what is included in the rent, which is the game in its current state. I am also aware they can evict me at any time, and in turn I can move out and find another place to live whenever I feel like it.

"

Xtorma wrote:

I always looked at my packs as month to month rent. They entitle me a place to live, but I don't own the place. I can submit my complaints to the landlord , suggest ways to make the property better, etc... but in the end , They only owe me what is included in the rent, which is the game in its current state. I am also aware they can evict me at any time, and in turn I can move out and find another place to live whenever I feel like it.

Hey, that's actually a healthy and grown up way to look at it. Well done.

"

drklrd wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

You didnt buy a game, you bought micro transactions.

Do you understand what a "Supporter Pack" is ?

Its actually kinda comical that you really just used the "i paid for this game" argument, when you didnt buy the game and the money you invested into it with supporter packs was purchased knowing fully that the game radically changes regularly.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/55086

Semantics much?

No, its not semantics. ALL money purchased via supporter packs literally goes entirely to the on going development of the game. When you buy a supporter pack you are not buying the game, youre showing your support for the game. In exchange for your generosity GGG gives you Microtransactions in thanks for the support.

By buying a pack you fully acknowledge that and by playing the game for more than one league youd absolutely know the game radically changed every 3 months. After all the appeal to the game in its current state is Leagues + Yearly expansions.

OP is wrong. Please consider all valid feedback.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

No, its not semantics. ALL money purchased via supporter packs literally goes entirely to the on going development of the game. When you buy a supporter pack you are not buying the game, youre showing your support for the game. In exchange for your generosity GGG gives you Microtransactions in thanks for the support.

By buying a pack you fully acknowledge that and by playing the game for more than one league youd absolutely know the game radically changed every 3 months. After all the appeal to the game in its current state is Leagues + Yearly expansions.

I don't think that's the way it works. I'm pretty sure all moneys go into a corporate account, and GGG submits a budget yearly. Tencent then approves the budget and that's what they get to spend. If they need to go over budget , they have to get approval. I am pretty sure there is a huge difference between a privately owned company and a corporate owned one. Even though Chris may have negotiated for creative autonomy, I am pretty sure no corporation would give up financial control.