Don't concede an inch to Reddit.

"

Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index wrote:

Well MOST PEOPLE IN FACT, do not use forums or reddit, especially as posting could expose you to an unpleasurable experience, imagine you commenting on their thread. What a nightmare

No, most people dont use them because they dont offer anything of value, nice personal attack though buddy.

I tried really hard

"

seandkiller wrote:

"

Wild concept that you believe the games numbers werent inflated prior, not because the game was better but because people had more free time. Its almost as if being locked down in your house with nothing better to do doesnt attribute for the majority of player inflation in previous leagues.

Im not intentionally misconstruing anything, youre intentionally making shit assumptions about player numbers.

Alright, I was going to stop replying but at this point I'm going to instead try for a different tact.

Why do you think those that dislike heavy-handed nerfs are a minority? If you point to Steam charts and claim them inadequate and view literally every single forum for the game being steeped in negativity as the workings of an over-active minority of haters, what evidence would you deem acceptable?

Anecdotally, the nerfs drove me away and I've been playing since Tempest/Warbands. I would wager there are many more like me.

Let me hit you with the real question. Why do you believe soo adamantly that steam chart numbers have any relation whatsoever to being purely based on the fact that nerfs are the reason why people arent playing the game ?

Theres literally a plethora of reasons why people could not be playing the league so why are you boiling down to your personal opinion of "it must be because the nerfs". Theres literally no evidence of that, at all, you cant look at numbers with no actual data and make that conclusion which is why statements in regards to the league numbers are nothing more than assumptions.

"

Let me hit you with the real question. Why do you believe soo adamantly that steam chart numbers have any relation whatsoever to being purely based on the fact that nerfs are the reason why people arent playing the game ?

Theres literally a plethora of reasons why people could not be playing the league so why are you boiling down to your personal opinion of "it must be because the nerfs". Theres literally no evidence of that, at all, you cant look at numbers with no actual data and make that conclusion which is why statements in regards to the league numbers are nothing more than assumptions.

This works both ways. Is it possible most of the player drop-off is due to unrelated means? Yes, it is. It's also possible that it is due to that.

There's no way one way or the other this can be proven, outside of taking the actual stated opinions of those that quit into account.

Streamers have voiced displeasure of this patch.

Every single forum has voiced displeasure of this patch.

Their own Steam reviews have suffered tremendously.

And it's not hard to assume that most players don't like heavy-handed nerfs.

So is it without a doubt that most players stopped due to the balance changes? Admittedly, no. But I don't think it's as outlandish as you make it out to be.

There is indeed a plethora of reasons for why people would stop playing a game. One of those reasons is people no longer enjoy the game.

"

seandkiller wrote:

"

Let me hit you with the real question. Why do you believe soo adamantly that steam chart numbers have any relation whatsoever to being purely based on the fact that nerfs are the reason why people arent playing the game ?

Theres literally a plethora of reasons why people could not be playing the league so why are you boiling down to your personal opinion of "it must be because the nerfs". Theres literally no evidence of that, at all, you cant look at numbers with no actual data and make that conclusion which is why statements in regards to the league numbers are nothing more than assumptions.

This works both ways. Is it possible most of the player drop-off is due to unrelated means? Yes, it is. It's also possible that it is due to that.

There's no way one way or the other this can be proven, outside of taking the actual stated opinions of those that quit into account.

Streamers have voiced displeasure of this patch.

Every single forum has voiced displeasure of this patch.

Their own Steam reviews have suffered tremendously.

And it's not hard to assume that most players don't like heavy-handed nerfs.

So is it without a doubt that most players stopped due to the balance changes? Admittedly, no. But I don't think it's as outlandish as you make it out to be.

There is indeed a plethora of reasons for why people would stop playing a game. One of those reasons is people no longer enjoy the game.

And what about all the people enjoying it? A happy customer is less inclined to make their happiness known. While an unhappy customer is the exact opposite, which is exactly what we are seeing right now. People who are happy with something are less inclined to interact with things like forums which is why the few who do use them, out of the already small population of people using then, are flooded out.

Streamers originally complained about it but after actually playing it, dont have an issue with it and have expressed enjoying the league after coming to the realization that their interpretation of the patch notes was entirely reactionary and wasnt as bad as it actually was. Streamers MAJORLY contributed to the initial outrage and loss of players by spouting complete non-sense.

This is why all streamers are clearly still playing the game. The games still fun, the nerfs actually didnt really hurt that bad, theres still plenty to do.

If the patch was legitimately that bad and streamers had such a distaste for the game because of the nerfs, they wouldnt play it, they would play another game an express that they arent playing path of exile because of it.

Steam reviews were literally brigaded by reddit. A reddit post went up and review bombing was the result. Why are you using that as "proof" ? Review bombing isnt actually about disliking the game or not, its about attempting to seek revenge on the developer. Its the least relevant thing possible.

Yes, we know one reason some players stopped playing is because the changes, and as Chris said "this is the expected result of us wanting to get back on track with our vision for the game and lead the game back onward to a path that will flow into Path of Exile 2".

Ironically enough, everyone went nuts over path of exile 2 and how good it looks, felt to play, and those who got to alpha test it especially. Now suddenly taking power away from the player to prepare us for Path of Exile 2 is now the boogey man ? Knee jerk at its finest.

In the end this is nothing more than stepping stones to a better game. If this is all it takes for people to "quit" they likely never truly enjoyed the game itself to begin with.

"

Ironically enough, everyone went nuts over path of exile 2 and how good it looks, felt to play, and those who got to alpha test it especially. Now suddenly taking power away from the player to prepare us for Path of Exile 2 is now the boogey man ? Knee jerk at its finest.

In the end this is nothing more than stepping stones to a better game. If this is all it takes for people to "quit" they likely never truly enjoyed the game itself to begin with.

I'll take your word on the streamers as I'm too lazy to verify the truth of what you said, although I will caution that these are people who literally owe their career to Path Of Exile.

This, however, I take extreme issue with. You can argue that the end-product will be better, and I might agree. You can argue that nerfs are necessary, and again I might agree.

What GGG have done, however, is essentially just throwing an absurd amount of nerfs out without anything to compensate or distract the playerbase.

They have not even taken the time to adjust monster values or league mechanics for this supposed vision of theirs.

Any player of any online game can tell you just how terrible a patch of nothing but nerfs feels, especially when they've been told this is just the beginning (And not even the big patch).

"

And what about all the people enjoying it? A happy customer is less inclined to make their happiness known. While an unhappy customer is the exact opposite, which is exactly what we are seeing right now. People who are happy with something are less inclined to interact with things like forums which is why the few who do use them, out of the already small population of people using then, are flooded out.

Yes, sure. Happy customers are less likely to voice their opinions. This is widely known, so I can't argue there.

What I will argue, is that we have no idea how significant of a portion of the playerbase this is. You have those who are disgruntled but still play as well as those who are happy with the new direction. There is literally no way to tell, and so I am personally more inclined to believe that, due to the overwhelming negativity surrounding every forum of discussion for the game, people are more unhappy than happy.

"

Steam reviews were literally brigaded by reddit. A reddit post went up and review bombing was the result. Why are you using that as "proof" ? Review bombing isnt actually about disliking the game or not, its about attempting to seek revenge on the developer. Its the least relevant thing possible.

This is just incorrect. The reviews were already mixed beforehand, and to claim it's due to disgruntled redditors and nothing more sounds as if you're trying to absolve GGG of any and all criticism.

"

In the end this is nothing more than stepping stones to a better game. If this is all it takes for people to "quit" they likely never truly enjoyed the game itself to begin with.

This is what I'll close with as I really don't have the energy to devote to this right now: Whether something is a stepping stone to a better game does not matter at all if you have no idea how to actually put the stones down in the proper order / process.

Go on reddit, go to the August 4 post about it. After the post the game received all the negative reviews that account for that day, in addition to this, it was at the top of the page, which in turn means that there will be more days with lesser reviews until it goes down and equalizes again.

By the way, if we were to go purely by steam charts, why is it that the game has better reviews and more positive reviews when it wasnt in the "zoomer" game state ? The game had more equalized consistent positive reviewing when the game was slower, even when the game sped up massively the reviews were overwhelmingly positive. But with that also came the player base no one wants, the leeches. Which is why you see an increase across the board of negative reviews.

Even not mentioning that and only going based upon recent times, its overwhelmingly positive or positive by comparison. Leagues with with equally as bad numbers still remained positive even though they had bad changes and werent good leagues either.

Its an extremely blatant reddit review bomb.

Honestly, I Think any concession they give to the community that is unhappy right now are simply thrown bones. They have a goal, and they will get there. The concessions are simply there to try and dull the pain.

Contrary to popular belief, GGG cares about most all of their players, (it's how they get paid after all) and want to retain as many as they can. At the same time they know what they need to do to position the game into a state where they can sustain it's long term growth. That is their "vision". If they can play off of the Gamers for gamers mantra its just a plus for them.

I think it was a crappy thing to lead people on with the powercreep for so long knowing it was unsustainable, but they wanted the growth it brought. Most people who play the game never even entertained the thought that it had a ceiling, and just assumed the game would continue on the trajectory it was following. As has been pointed out countless times, most people don't enter into discussions about the games they play, they simply play them.

At some point GGG decided to trade what they wanted (their starting vision) for what they needed (short term growth) with the end goal of cashing out on their work and mitigating their financial risk. I have no issue with that. they are capitalist's and we all were aware of it. Regardless...here we are.

Now that the original creators have cashed out on their work and mitigated their risk , they can claim savior status (from their self inflicted game state) and bring the game back into line with what they have claimed they always wanted it to be. I see the play and the thought involved. They knew there was going to be some backlash, but they were hoping their savior status would mitigate the majority of it, so they took the risk. It still may. For the sake of the game ,I am hoping it does.

Now we have to wait and see. They have submitted their plan, received their budget and now they have to deliver on their projections. You guys are going to need the extra large tub of popcorn for this marathon movie show. The good thing is, that no one is more qualified to make this work than the people who are attempting it.

Good luck GGG. Hope you don't need it.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Go on reddit, go to the August 4 post about it. After the post the game received all the negative reviews that account for that day, in addition to this, it was at the top of the page, which in turn means that there will be more days with lesser reviews until it goes down and equalizes again.

By the way, if we were to go purely by steam charts, why is it that the game has better reviews and more positive reviews when it wasnt in the "zoomer" game state ? The game had more equalized consistent positive reviewing when the game was slower, even when the game sped up massively the reviews were overwhelmingly positive. But with that also came the player base no one wants, the leeches. Which is why you see an increase across the board of negative reviews.

Even not mentioning that and only going based upon recent times, its overwhelmingly positive or positive by comparison. Leagues with with equally as bad numbers still remained positive even though they had bad changes and werent good leagues either.

Its an extremely blatant reddit review bomb.

I dont go redit, only when some1 here posts that a GGG posted something on redit.. (can't wrap my head around that)

I turned my old review on steam into a negative one, i still play the game i still hate and do not enjoy the patch, i do like the mechanic, bu there is more unbalancing then ever. No risk/time v reward at all for the casual me.

So it's not all a redit bomb.

"

Alex2515 wrote:

GGG should start moving away from communicating through Reddit. It's an incredibly bad way to communicate with customers. Any positive discussion about the recent changes are immediately downvoted into oblivion by [Removed by Support]. The only positive threads I've seen about this patch have been seen through searching /all in the controversial section.

Half of the [Removed by Support] on Reddit want PoE to turn into a Chinese Moba P2W fiesta. They don't want to engage with mechanics and cry when their builds can't kill a boss in half a second. They want to speed through maps and play their same OP character they've played for five years.

I was very excited when I saw the pace and the gameplay of PoE 2. I really hope that this [Removed by Support] tantrum does not affect any of the development.

The Reddit echo-chamber has already greatly affected the HC community where constant spouts of 'HC is waaaay too dangerous, don't play that you just get off-screened and 1-shot all the time!!!!!' greatly discourage new players from joining throughout the years. Whereas in reality, they have no idea what they're talking about (as always) and HC has been safer than it ever has been in the past.

I hope that GGG doesn't concede to the circus that is Reddit. I'd hate to see PoE turn into Retail WoW.

Prepare to be disappointed, they've always showcased the most basic of gameplay outside of a few league trailers. Playing with minimal links and gear so that the focus is on the new areas, enemies, skills, etc. No quicksilvers, no movement speed boots, they would never leave a chestpiece off for the extra boost.

They've said people will find a way to clear the content as fast as possible, that is the game. You try to make your character as efficient and powerful as possible to overcome these challenges. Chris has made it clear that isn't what he thinks ideal PoE gameplay speed looks like, its just showing off the new content.

They are pulling things back so the old content designed for pre-power creep levels isn't totally overshadowed. You can look at WoW as an example where every new expansion totally invalidates all the content from the previous one, and Chris doesn't want that happening to PoE.

PoE might be a tiny bit slower, but don't expect it to be a totally different game. The most impactful thing might be the skill gem and socket changes, plus doubling ascendancies.

And the people on reddit aren't complaining because the game is being made too slow or hard, its just the changes are not well balanced, it majorly restricts build freedom, and the game is less fun for a lot of people because of that.

These two problems are not mutually exclusive, you can increase difficulty while preserving build diversity and progression speed. But it takes more work than blanket nerfing every damage support and mana multiplier and bricking a ton of builds.