Will anything ever change Chris Wilson's philosophy on PoE?

I think their methodology is proven to be successful but I do think they do some false connectivity between retention and certain design decisions they make.

A little bit like chaos orb man this league, i'm sure some players going for 40/40 played more to achieve that goal but him being extremely rare doesn't really benefit anybody. Its also IMO very low quality retention, those players aren't staying because they are having the time of their lives they are staying because they want to accomplish something and its been made tortuously long, that kind of design is burnout city and i'd argue very solidly negative.

They've always publicly stated that they make an overwhelming majority of their funding in the initial weeks of a league so I've never really understood why they care about 7-12 week retention anyway their entire design actually works better if we quit after 6.

It took $80+mil to do it once... nothing says it couldn't happen again.

"Will anything ever change Chris Wilson's philosophy on PoE?"


Maybe if he is losing all his money, home... somehow...

Rich persons wont change back, they even get worse and worse..

I known enough of them.... not one has changed in 20 years...

Success often turns people into wannabe Gods which dont listen to ants..

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Vennto wrote:

Everyone running around with 6x T1 items and you call that "the best thing that happened to the game". Sorry, I just have to disagree on that.

Were are those "everyone" 6xt1 items players?

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Vennto wrote:

Yeah. The reason is 1500 angry casuals rather put their effort into screaming on the forums instead of trying to work their way around it. I´ve played 3 builds this league, all totally fine without being able to produce 6x T1 items. And no, no work-around: My last one is focussing on rare-items, so I HAVE to craft stuff.

I'm toxic?

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Vennto wrote:

"With the goal to waste your time". Damn, your incompetence from the last league finally led to toxic attitudes? Too bad. I remember you were once one of the good guys, actually thinking "how can I approach this problem" rather than blatantly blaming GGG. 3.13 brought atlas-points to actually REDUCE content and tailor it to your liking. But then again, you were very confused on how to make even 1ex currency last league... sure that´s the fault of GGG.

Yeah, their goal now is to waste players time as much as possible. You wouldn't know that since you haven't played the old Atlas, when PoE had different priorities by the ones that owned it. Therefore you don't have the baseline to compare it. It's ridiculous grind fest now compared to what it was.
https://youtu.be/_7tbDq6-cCA

And get over yourself dude. I was making same currency before as you do now, if not more. But you know, i've basically didn't play 2 leagues, got out of the loop, forgot stuff... Pls don't even try to put me down like this, like i'm some incompetent idiot. It only speaks about you.
As a matter of fact this is the last time ill talk to you, that is for sure. Your toxicity and arrogance is over the top. My mistake is that I tolerated it when I shouldn't have.

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Vennto wrote:

Yes, Crafting is complicated. No doubt about that. But again, it gets only complicated when you start to combine multiple methods. If you are just aiming for 2 mods on your items you can chaos spam, alt + regal, go fossils, roll it with harvest... There is nothing complicated about it, or at least a lower threshhold. On the other hand, if you demand 6x the perfect stats on an item, then you have to have the knowledge to craft that. I remember very fondly the discussions we had on your discord about stat-weightings and how to force certain mods and the likelihood of hitting perfect stuff. If you want the absolute best you have to be knowledgeable. I don´t see ANY problem with that. The problem comes from people that don´t want, or possibly can´t put in the effort and still DEMAND to have best in slot items. Don´t get me wrong here: I acknowledge that some people have less time to play, but then they should lower their expectations in terms of items. The imagination that you need 300+ex gear to beat the endgame is just ridiculous, I do it on 2-5ex with TONS of chars.
Right now I am running with roughly 185 MILLION Shaper-DPS. Do you honestly believe that it would matter if you cut that into half or even down to 1/3 of that? And with that I also would reduce the complexity of the crafting-process as well as the currency needed by 90%.

No one demands 6xt1! No one except uber elite has to have such items. Do you think that making 6xt1 items is some kind next level intelligence, that only 0.1% players have?
It's about knowledge and time invested. People that make those invest serious amounts of time and dedication to produce such stuff Harvest or no Harvest. Time is money, and you need a lot of it to make mirror tier gear.
Harvest didn't bother mirror tier crafters. Most big crafters liked the Harvest. It brought another level of competition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bck_Nuyppg0&ab_channel=KOBEBLACKMAMBAKOBEBLACKMAMBA
Item editor? Too bad they didn't have you to enlighten them.
Harvest wasn't cheap. Wasn't an item editor. Was a tool to make long term goals. Didn't break anything as 3.13 was completely fine. Build possibilities/variety was at it's peak in spite that people will always go for the most broken stuff, BUT you could make the lesser skills perform good.
Game was more alive than ever.

Not once was I aiming at 300ex chars. To me they are just waste of time. I know what can beat the endgame and more importantly i know what feels good to play in the endgame. There is a big difference in between.

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Vennto wrote:

Yeah, and you lost it cause unfortunately your builds were nerfed and u took that personally. By the way, I figured out a cheap way to craft weapons that are only roughly 15% weaker than the top tier ones we used in the last league ;-)

No, you think i've lost it. So, i'm mad now at GGG and I hate PoE because of that? Right...
Not the first build to get a hammer nor the last. I don't live in this game and I don't have personal relationship with GGG.
What I've made, i did it primarily for myself to have fun and on that basis wanted to share it with others.
I've came from Dota to PoE, so the concept of cyclical changes came to me naturally.
Will I make something new depends, will the game keep me interested to the point i'll dedicate the time.
Right now, it doesn't.

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It's ridiculous grind fest now compared to what it was.
https://youtu.be/_7tbDq6-cCA

That is no grindfest, that´s a perfect example why people aren´t succeeding in the economic race. That guy clearly is not suited for farming juiced t16´s, as he takes 10, sometimes 20 seconds for a single rare monster. Also, if you don´t want to go against beyond-bosses, don´t roll beyond?
He also does everything on the map:

1) open breaches in a closed, walled-off are, without any atlas points for it
2) going into abyssal depths, while not having enough damage
3) playing blight without atlas points for it
4) going into harvest

nothing of the above is needed to successfully finish a map. I can cherrypick an opposing example very easy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKMQKuIHwLk
PURE Bossing with 6-7ex per hour on ... I think it was a 10ex budget? Don´t remember, not much definately. Check the speed compared to what your example is doing. He could easily tune it down to t11, run with breach and atlas breach points and farm TONS of more money. Way to make your point to show how it´s NOT done :D

"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bck_Nuyppg0&ab_channel=KOBEBLACKMAMBAKOBEBLACKMAMBA
Item editor? Too bad they didn't have you to enlighten them.

Also very cherry-picked example that also does not count in a lot of cases. I mean, who do you want to convince here? I literally played your build, and there were cases where you could simply "augment chaos" to bring kind of bad weapons to a very respecteable strength-level, 100% deterministic. Arguing with the exception rather than the rule is kind of a poor mans way to make a point, I thought better of you.

"

I'm toxic?

Of course, to a lesser extent than Yalpe for sure but with every single post I read from you you´re drifting more towards his final attitudes. why you think I left your discord? A compartment of past-knowledgeable players that whined all day long about nerfs. Literally the definition of toxic for me.

"

And get over yourself dude. I was making same currency before as you do now, if not more.

Wonder why u mentioned a few times in the discord and the forums stuff like "wow, I was never able to make items like that". Tell yourself what you want. I know you fell out of the loop, as mentioned earlier I have no problem with that. But calling the game grindy when YOU are the one missing out on ways to get fast to currency is just the classic casual-nonsense. There is a reason that the top players have their headhunters literally 2 days into a new league. And don´t start with "yeah but people with a life, kids, etc.". I know A LOT of players that have normal jobs, girlfriends, kids, whatever and they all take a few days off at league-start and grind. All u have to do is be good at the game and you can manage to have really strong characters in a few days.

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Yeah, their goal now is to waste players time as much as possible. You wouldn't know that since you haven't played the old Atlas, when PoE had different priorities by the ones that owned it

Pretty happy about that tbh. If I played the old atlas based on your comments I would be done with a league in 1 week rather than in 4, where´s the fun in that.

For the last part, I´d like to just answer with your own statements. Guess they say enough ;-)

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Do you think that making 6xt1 items is some kind next level intelligence, that only 0.1% players have?

No, not at all. It is about a thing that you mentioned as well:

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It's about knowledge and time invested.

Yeah, exactly, and not having the knowledge isn´t the problem for me. The problem for me is asking for an easier way to get those items - like the old harvest.

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Pls don't even try to put me down like this, like i'm some incompetent idiot. It only speaks about you.

Yeah, you know exactly how to craft, right? Oh, wait...

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Crafting became so convoluted that I have no desire to watch a single tutorial for a god knows which time again in my PoE history

Or not I guess. I am not putting you down, your own statements do that for me.

The development of POE 2 shows that it does change. As near as I can tell, the guys who started GGG had little to no experience in either game development or business. It's been a learning curve since the start.

Some things they've learned could not be easily changed in the existing game, hence POE 2. By the time they discovered some things they didn't like, they were locked in by technical constraints.

We can longer access old posts in the forum (for unknown reasons). But I remember looking at the very first page in the game play section. There was a post by Chris saying that Standard was expected to be the core game for players. He implied that leagues were more of a sideline. Now it's the complete opposite of that.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

All of it seems to be focused around their vision of retention.

I agree with this. The game is not noob friendly. People will come and go in any game. People will leave no matter what. The game focus seems to be entirely on retention. New players are brought in though heavy marketing during league launch, not through game changes that make it more appealing to new players.


At one time Chris said that each league would target a different segment of the player base. That was around the time when the tutorial and some other noob friendly changes were made. Since then the focus has heavily shifted toward retention and high end players. 90% of the player base gets a few crumbs tossed in their direction every now and then, but nothing of substance.

A similar game that does better and takes more market share.

It will happen eventually, just a matter of when.

Does anyone really think that next game will have tab out whisper trading?

Or that it will be balanced around discord servers for endgame/crafting endgame gear?



At the moment though, PoE is unique and interesting still.

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trixxar wrote:

It will happen eventually, just a matter of when.

Hasn't happened for RTS :P

let me simplify this post

if you don't no life this game
fuck you

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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trixxar wrote:

It will happen eventually, just a matter of when.

Hasn't happened for RTS :P

You mean SCII or DOTA?

By players, I grant you, but by revenue they are not in the top 10 anymore.