Harvest Changes - Kick and Scream

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fancyfootwork wrote:

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

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fancyfootwork wrote:

"we feel communities pooling crafts is bad, therefore we nerf crafts and wont touch the underlying issue."

This isn't GGG's intention.
Did you know they published a Manifesto about this?

Yep. Here is the line from said manifesto

"With Harvest integrated into the core game with 3.13.0, players still made ridiculous items. Even the crafts we made quite rare felt pretty common when the entire community was pooling them together and using them on the right items."

Yea this why I regret editing out the word "main" from right before "intention" out of the fear of seeming too specific or pedantic.

This wasn't their main issue. JFC why do I hate myself
Here we go:
The MAIN issue is deterministic crafting, which is AMPLIFIED by massive trading on TFT.
You're making it seem like they don't like it when the community works together? IDK, I kind of wish you'd look at the bigger picture.

Also, what "underlying issues" are you referring to?

Underlying issue i mentioned was the availability of crafts through TFT.

The deterministic crafting can be solved quite easily via revised mod tags.

I dont know how to solve TFT trading properly so i cant really offer anything there, i will say that making them tradable will NOT solve it(LOL) and i also dont like the idea of account bound items(fuck d3)

Edit: Spelling

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fancyfootwork wrote:

The deterministic crafting can be solved quite easily via revised mod tags.

I had to think about this for a second. I'm sure you have a reason in mind (what is it?) but wouldn't that ALSO make crafting even more deterministic since you can target certain mods more easily? I'm not sure what exactly you're suggesting.

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fancyfootwork wrote:

Underlying issue i mentioned was the availability of crafts through TFT.

The deterministic crafting can be solved quite easily via revised mod tags.

I dont know how to solve TFT trading properly so i cant really offer anything there, i will say that making them tradable will NOT solve it(LOL) and i also dont like the idea of account bound items(fuck d3)

Edit: Spelling

They could have introduced some sort of resistance to quickly mod'ing an item like cooldowns between harvest crafts, or temporarily binding an item with a cumulative account bound timer for each attempted craft. I don't like the latter because f___ account bound items.

They also could have introduced risk by making each craft have potential to brick or poof the item; perhaps even increasing the risk with each attempted craft.

I'm sure there are smarter choices. I'm fine with what they did as well.

I do personally laugh each time someone suggests making the crafts tradable as an answer to TFT, as if the problem with TFT was that it was not accessible enough.

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Nubatron wrote:

I do personally laugh each time someone suggests making the crafts tradable as an answer to TFT, as if the problem with TFT was that it was not accessible enough.

Yeah, accessibility is not the issue with TFT. It's two-fold:
1. Accessible only if you're willing to use yet another 3rd party tool.
2. Risk of scamming.

No 1 has no upsides whatsoever.
No 2 has an upside (it adds a risk to crafting), but that is so badly "implemented" that it doesn't count. You could add a small risk of poofing the item to get the same positive effect without the hugely negative effect of rewarding assholes for scamming naive players.

So, allowing the trades to be crafted would indeed be better than how it is now. The main issue is the power, though, but I just thought I'd chip in on this little side issue as it seems so obvious to me.

/E: deleted a brain fart

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Exile009 wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

But we all know your parents knew what was best for you.

GGG will make sure you have fun right way and not wrong way - the way you want.

This game allows you more build flexibility than pretty much any of its competitors, both past and foreseeable future. Last Epoch is a hot topic right now for instance - try making builds there that don't fit in with the 'best way' the devs have pre-laid out for you. GGG nerfs things that get out of hand, other ARPG's mostly don't even allow you to explore off their set path to begin with.

I am not talking about builds.

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

I liked Annuls too, but they were too good in that they, among other things, invalidated most other crafting methods. Second, STOP EXALT SLAMMING. Just because you don't know how to craft doesn't mean you have to muddy the waters with lack of knowledge.

And please, for the love of GOD stop thinking you know this much more than the people who brought this game up from a KICKSTARTER and work with it everyday. It's painful to watch this terrible logic repeated over and over again.

"Invalidating other crafting systems" is non-argument. It just goes to show how other systems suck and we need something like Harvest.

For the rest of the post. How ironic.

Crafting was fine before harvest, it'll be fine after it.

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TheSaltPrincess wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

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Noble_Seiken wrote:

But we all know your parents knew what was best for you.

GGG will make sure you have fun right way and not wrong way - the way you want.

Diablo 3 exists and has deterministic crafting

So?

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Krayken wrote:

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SunL4D2 wrote:

Not sure why you didn't catch it.

Here is your explanation.

Community loved more or less deterministic crafting with Harvest and GGG comes in in hot with "No, you have fun wrong way! Here, take Exalt, close your eyes and slam. We know you love to gamble!"

And it's not just about crafting and harvest. GGG is more and more distant from playerbase.

There's a difference between "more deterministic crafting" and an item editor.

When you can start with an item with 6x bad t16 mod and turn it into a 6x t1 mods then thats a bit more than just a "more deterministic" crafting method.

Yeah, and Harvest is not item editor.

Calling Harvest item editor is beyond stretch when most of the time at best you have 1/10 chance to hit mods you want. And when each try requires so much effort.