Harvest needs a big nerf for next league.

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Char1983 wrote:

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yamface wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

In Harvest league, I would estimate I got to about 30-50% of what the build is theoretically capable of.

Sounds like you're just bad at the game.

Do you have a character that has reached more than 50% of the theoretical power ceiling of the build you are running? I honestly doubt it. One can argue that it isn't necessary, sure, but again, I doubt it.

That being said, I doubt that I am bad at the game. It's more that I don't play too much, and without playing a LOT, min-maxing your character isn't really possible. I am pretty sure the median player had worse gear than I had during Harvest league.

I was 5-6 mods from literally perfect gear on my harvest character. And it was a 15 day project. Like seriously.

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Rixh1 wrote:

I find Harvest fun, I think it's great. But it is sadly too overpowered.

I disagree with that, it's not too overpowered.

They bound currency to crafting to reduce the rampant devaluation in online games. The problem is that they put too much item modifiers, which made crafting not worth the investment, which pushed people to keep their orbs in their stash rather than use them.

This problem introduced the need to make alternative mean of crafting for "normal" players, they started with essence, fossil and now harvest but the problem kept the same.

But at least with harvest people can actually craft and unlock the entire item modding system, which they didn't before. The problem come with trading that basically bypass all the necessity, since you can just buy a craft.

What i can suggest GGG is to make those harvest modified items bound for a certain amount of xp to those the harvest belong to. So you'd only be able to trade your craft once you have spend some time using those items. You could say 1life force = 1xp or whatever. Only then the curse is gone and you can trade them again. Just an idea to brainstorm with.

But in my opinion the root of the problem is more about the rng on modifiers to begin with, that should have been tweaked properly instead so that people would actually use their obs for themselves rather than for trading as it should have been from the start. Maybe they can narrow down tags with the crafting bench, whatever would make it easier really. Alternate crafting methods were bad band aids to begin with, imo, and harvest is just the demonstration of that.

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Halagaz wrote:

They bound currency to crafting to reduce the rampant devaluation in online games. The problem is that they put too much item modifiers, which made crafting not worth the investment, which pushed people to keep their orbs in their stash rather than use them.

This problem introduced the need to make alternative mean of crafting for "normal" players, they started with essence, fossil and now harvest but the problem kept the same.

Back then all items were either found+ID or chaos spammed. This idea that 'crafting wasn't worth the investment' doesn't really mean anything. 'Worth' is a comparative measure - and when there are only two ways of getting gear, craft or pick up + identify, what you're saying is that players would prefer to pick up and identify 1,000 pairs of boots compared to the cost associated with spamming 100 chaos orbs on a base. Or however the math would shake out on an individual basis given item X with mods A, B, C, D, and E - their tiers and rolls, and the likelihood of randoming an item better via chaos.

That was good. It was good when, in your ARPG, killing monsters and picking up their dropped gear was a primary way to ... get gear. Now people turn their loot filters up on day 2 - if they even had them turned 'down' to begin with. The goal of the modern efficient PoE player is to NOT see gear. In an ARPG.

We have Shaper and Elder to thank for starting that, with Conquerors multiplying the situation exponentially and Harvest further multiplying it by a few more exponents.

When once we were exiles struggling to survive a foreign and harsh continent we are now god slayers searching for influenced canvases on which to paint and imbue in pursuit of enough power to slay space gods. I don't mind that the game evolves, mechanically and narratively. But goddamn do I wish finding gear was still a thing. Crafting should be a supplement, not the alpha and omega.

They made drops near meaningless everything is so over saturated with drops and currency.

I was watching a D2 speed run and saw a green item drop and that felt exciting.

POE was sort of like that in it's early days. Now it's a casino with so many league mechanics just spewing out items.

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yamface wrote:

I was 5-6 mods from literally perfect gear on my harvest character. And it was a 15 day project. Like seriously.

I would honestly love to see that gear. Given that your character wears 9-10 items, not counting flasks, that would mean that you have at least 3 items that are literally perfect (including a perfect double corruption in most cases).

I didn't get a single one. The closest I got was this:



But it only has T2 crit multi, and I am pretty sure that you can make a better one with double influence. With a bit of shuffling on my other items, I might also be able to get rid of the strength requirement, in which case there are lots of corruptions that would be better.

Are you telling me that you got most of your gear literally perfect within 15 days? Like, perfect base, perfect implicit (perfect 3-implicit fractured base with perfect rolls if applicable), best possible double corruption (if applicable, and of course perfect roll), perfect 6T1 or 5T1+T0 (essence / delve crafting) rolls, perfect rolls if unique, best enchant, all flasks perfect, best in slot items in each slot, except for 5-6 mods that could be better? Perfect jewels as well, including most likely a 3-stat Watcher's Eye, the perfect timeless jewels and/or 1-stat Voices for your build?

I highly doubt that.

I think Harvest was nerfed. I have not seen the powerful annuls/annul exalt/exalts in last 4 encounters with maxed Harvest hamlet. Which for me is over a week since I play about an hour a day. Whereas before I filled up storage with each one.

Less frequent less powerful seems to be tact they took. Anyone else notice same? Could be RNG but I doubt it. It's a dramatic change.

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Char1983 wrote:

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yamface wrote:

I was 5-6 mods from literally perfect gear on my harvest character. And it was a 15 day project. Like seriously.

I would honestly love to see that gear. Given that your character wears 9-10 items, not counting flasks, that would mean that you have at least 3 items that are literally perfect (including a perfect double corruption in most cases).

I didn't get a single one. The closest I got was this:

But it only has T2 crit multi, and I am pretty sure that you can make a better one with double influence. With a bit of shuffling on my other items, I might also be able to get rid of the strength requirement, in which case there are lots of corruptions that would be better.

Are you telling me that you got most of your gear literally perfect within 15 days? Like, perfect base, perfect implicit (perfect 3-implicit fractured base with perfect rolls if applicable), best possible double corruption (if applicable, and of course perfect roll), perfect 6T1 or 5T1+T0 (essence / delve crafting) rolls, perfect rolls if unique, best enchant, all flasks perfect, best in slot items in each slot, except for 5-6 mods that could be better? Perfect jewels as well, including most likely a 3-stat Watcher's Eye, the perfect timeless jewels and/or 1-stat Voices for your build?

I highly doubt that.

How about you just look at the character instead of asking.

Outside of those few imperfect mods.. and the boots, if you told me to swap out any other mod the answer is no.

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innervation wrote:

Back then all items were either found+ID or chaos spammed. This idea that 'crafting wasn't worth the investment' doesn't really mean anything. 'Worth' is a comparative measure - and when there are only two ways of getting gear, craft or pick up + identify, what you're saying is that players would prefer to pick up and identify 1,000 pairs of boots compared to the cost associated with spamming 100 chaos orbs on a base. Or however the math would shake out on an individual basis given item X with mods A, B, C, D, and E - their tiers and rolls, and the likelihood of randoming an item better via chaos.

That was good. It was good when, in your ARPG, killing monsters and picking up their dropped gear was a primary way to ... get gear. Now people turn their loot filters up on day 2 - if they even had them turned 'down' to begin with. The goal of the modern efficient PoE player is to NOT see gear. In an ARPG.

We have Shaper and Elder to thank for starting that, with Conquerors multiplying the situation exponentially and Harvest further multiplying it by a few more exponents.

When once we were exiles struggling to survive a foreign and harsh continent we are now god slayers searching for influenced canvases on which to paint and imbue in pursuit of enough power to slay space gods. I don't mind that the game evolves, mechanically and narratively. But goddamn do I wish finding gear was still a thing. Crafting should be a supplement, not the alpha and omega.

Very valid points!

No one picks up rare items except for myself because of the alt shards if vendored :)

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yamface wrote:

How about you just look at the character instead of asking.

Outside of those few imperfect mods.. and the boots, if you told me to swap out any other mod the answer is no.

How would I know which character you are talking about?

Is it imagine_playing_hardcore? The one that doesn't have a proper helmet enchant? Or which one do you mean? Also, how many hours playtime did you spend on that character until you got to that level?

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Char1983 wrote:

How would I know which character you are talking about?

Is it imagine_playing_hardcore? The one that doesn't have a proper helmet enchant? Or which one do you mean? Also, how many hours playtime did you spend on that character until you got to that level?

There's only 1 character that's geared and the list is not long at all.

If the best thing you have to say is a lack of helmet enchant I think this discussion is over. Oh and just to top it off that character has 69 hours of playtime. You can play more than that over the course of the 3 month span even if you play 1 hour a day casually.

There is no excuse for shitting the bed in harvest league I'm sorry bud.