Why Headhunter is not nerfed when Summoners are dead?

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WaifuJanna wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

Because HH cost 100 ex when Necro summoner cost 6 link.

"Headhunter is most boring and game toxic item of all times, it makes PoE looks stupid and not requires any skill to play. Mapping with it it's pure bullshit."

Then dont use it.

Seriously go away with your stupid "dont use it" 12 year old argument.


Even if all streamers on twitch would agree not to use headhunter... and ONE random dude decided to not agree on that and use it.. it will destroy the game experience of all other players, since it HEAVILY crashs the overall economy of path of exile...

If 1 persons uses headhunter the Currency prices will go crazy again.
If 2 persons use headhunter the Currency prices will go twice as crazy...
e.g.


As long as headhunter is in the game and be that effective u are forced to play it if u want to make any progression or currency. If you don't. no matter how much u farm, You farm 1 Exalt per day? Nice. that Exalt drops half the price per hour.. cause Headhunter farming like 20 day


Headhunter should be drastically changed be obtainable much easyer (like a Tabula for example).. Headhunter should be a gimmic item for the lolz, not mandatory to become rich. Make headhunter for the zoom zoom speed playstile, but reduce Item Quantity by 100% when using headhunter. so u can still play it for fun but don't break the economy!!!!

Based on this logic, these items should be nerfed as well:

Pretty sure Necros are not *dead*

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Nicoladen wrote:

omg so much whining.

Choose another build - play the same - whatever....
It's not like the game is unplayable now - adapt and overcome.

For me changes, be it nerfs or buffs, just gives the game more playability and extends gameplay.

So how nerfing x amount of builds gives you "more playability"? It gives even less.

The less viable builds there are - the less players you will have to stick around playing this game.

But for some it's really hard to fathom this. They only care about other builds (which they don't play or don't find fun) getting much weaker/destroyed and post dumb copypastas on forums.

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M_atrix wrote:

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Nicoladen wrote:

omg so much whining.

Choose another build - play the same - whatever....
It's not like the game is unplayable now - adapt and overcome.

For me changes, be it nerfs or buffs, just gives the game more playability and extends gameplay.

So how nerfing x amount of builds gives you "more playability"? It gives even less.

People always flock to most broken FOTM. By nerfing FOTM to the level of general build, you "make" them look for diffrent build. Not every who played old FOTM will switch to the same new build - this making more skills being played.

I know, its harder to understand than quantum physics.

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M_atrix wrote:

So how nerfing x amount of builds gives you "more playability"? It gives even less.

The less viable builds there are - the less players you will have to stick around playing this game.

But for some it's really hard to fathom this. They only care about other builds (which they don't play or don't find fun) getting much weaker/destroyed and post dumb copypastas on forums.

So this question and answer should be stickied at the top of the forums every 3 months around this time.

Imagine ranking builds and placing them into tiers. The name of the build and skill gem it uses is irrelevant - we are zoomed out - the name of the build and skill gem in each tier changes over time via content expansions, nerfs, and buffs.

S Tier - cannot fail at anything in the game, bad player-proof, trivializes all content - 3 builds

A Tier - can beat 99% of the game with good play and gear, you may have to look at your screen while playing - 9 builds

B Tier - can beat 99% of the game, slower than A Tier builds, requires more gear and or good play than A Tier - 27 builds

C Tier - 81 builds

D Tier - everything else

now set that information into a box and put it aside, this next part is relevant but tangential. The following sentence is what you're not factoring in:

There are people who play PoE who only want to play an S tier build. You can find people on Reddit throughout the years begging GGG to nerf an S tier build 'so they can play something else'. I don't know how to describe their psychology to you as it is alien to me, but that's what they say they believe. And there are apparently a lot of people like this.

So lets tie it together. Assume both parts of that equation are true - 1. build power is a pyramid with few S tier builds and many C tier builds / 2. a bunch of players will not settle for playing anything but the top tier, even if they perfer skills from a lower tier from a thematic or mechanical perspective.

When both of these are true, nerfing 3 S tier builds isn't removing 3 builds, it is adding 6 builds (+9 -3). Thus, for this population, diversity is increased.

But what about people who don't limit themselves to S tier builds? Well they aren't losing anything, by definition. If you're a player willing to play anything that suits your fancy, they aren't removing S tier builds from the game, just knocking them down a tier or two. Everyone else has lost 0 diversity. The strange pathological S tier only players have gained it.

Summoners are not dead. Quit posting garbage.

@Innervation - an interesting perspective, and largely true I think.

However... Is it really wise to design a game where only 1-2% of the player base can comfortably play end-game content? Why not 10%? 20%? Or more?

That you need 5 categories to define build tiers points out (at least to me) the largest problem with the game: the balance is completely broken - across skills, gears, gems, etc.

I believe a better game would allow most any build at least compete at "close to" end game - say red maps? Sure would make the game more fun to more players, being able to play something they like, but also allowing that build to be competitive.

The current design has most people who want to compete above red maps chasing some kind of mythical meta build, spending tons of currency to get as close as they can to the build, and still not liking what they're playing - and even more importantly - still not even close to as competitive as the streamers (many of whom I believe are gaslighting their fans as to the true merits of the builds they advertise).

The game is so unbalanced because frankly, it's not possible to balance it. They've added layer after league layer, just like adding a new floor to a house every 3 months. Before long, the entire house becomes an unlivable mess, very unstable, and impossible for developers to truly understand and anticipate how league changes will create externalities throughout the entire game system.

The game's a mess. An unholy and wholly unbalanced mess. Personally, I'd prefer the next league to be an effort to fix this crap, and leave out any new lame content. And do something to the inchoate crafting mess in the process would be a nice touch.

I'd rather play good content instead of new content.

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Haverhill wrote:

However... Is it really wise to design a game where only 1-2% of the player base can comfortably play end-game content? Why not 10%? 20%? Or more?

Yes, it is. The market is already floodeed with dumbed down games for casuals. There you can find those games with "end game for 20% people or more". Paht of Exile isnt one of those and will never be. Deal with it.

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Haverhill wrote:

@Innervation - an interesting perspective, and largely true I think.

However... Is it really wise to design a game where only 1-2% of the player base can comfortably play end-game content? Why not 10%? 20%? Or more?

That you need 5 categories to define build tiers points out (at least to me) the largest problem with the game: the balance is completely broken - across skills, gears, gems, etc.

I believe a better game would allow most any build at least compete at "close to" end game - say red maps? Sure would make the game more fun to more players, being able to play something they like, but also allowing that build to be competitive.

The current design has most people who want to compete above red maps chasing some kind of mythical meta build, spending tons of currency to get as close as they can to the build, and still not liking what they're playing - and even more importantly - still not even close to as competitive as the streamers (many of whom I believe are gaslighting their fans as to the true merits of the builds they advertise).

The game is so unbalanced because frankly, it's not possible to balance it. They've added layer after league layer, just like adding a new floor to a house every 3 months. Before long, the entire house becomes an unlivable mess, very unstable, and impossible for developers to truly understand and anticipate how league changes will create externalities throughout the entire game system.

The game's a mess. An unholy and wholly unbalanced mess. Personally, I'd prefer the next league to be an effort to fix this crap, and leave out any new lame content. And do something to the inchoate crafting mess in the process would be a nice touch.

I'd rather play good content instead of new content.

Very few people are in the situation they find themselves in today completely by design. To me that would be equivalent of having the perfect life.

So I think its a mistake to think that PoE is in the exact state it is intended to be in by some master plan of the devs. Sure, they call the shots. The 3 month league cycle is by design. Conscious 15% power creep quarterly each league followed by annual 50% monster power creep is by design. Having a small % of their players find end game success is absolutely by design. Level 100 was the original dragon to chase - that very few ever caught.

Is it good design? Maybe. Depends on what the goals of the devs are. They used to say 'we're making the game we want to make, the game we find fun. gritty, dark, tough, unforgiving'.

But there are plenty of things in the game today that they couldn't have planned for. 7 years worth of league mechanics that some % of their players enjoy...how do you cut the bloat and still make people happy? They clearly haven't been planning for this for most of the games life - the evidence being that they seem to be scrambling right now for a plan.

I also doubt they envisioned this level of zoom zoom being in the game - with a similar dilemma of 'how do we neuter this without pissing everyone off?' We could go on and on about what may or may not be by design in modern PoE.

On people chasing the meta build - I think aurastacking combines with my last post in a novel way. People like the ones I described used to burn themselves out on the game by leaguestarting an S tier build, then having nothing to farm for once they got BiS gear for it. Why farm gear for a downgrade or a sidegrade character?

But aurastacking changed that game. There's always something better- up to and including a double corrupted Nebulis worth 5 mirrors or some absurd shit. These players finally had something to grind for after week 2, BiS gear, and 40/40 challenges had come and gone. They didn't have to quit the league early for once b/c they had beaten it.

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DoubleU wrote:

Pretty sure Necros are not *dead*

I think they raise the dead, from what I remember.