Delaying 3.13 due to Cyberpunk 2077

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Xystre wrote:

As for the flashback I don't know unless it's INSANELY good to justify this I don't think they might recover from the damage (trust wise) to some players at all..

You guys are so dramatic.

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BrettLee wrote:

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Xystre wrote:

As for the flashback I don't know unless it's INSANELY good to justify this I don't think they might recover from the damage (trust wise) to some players at all..

You guys are so dramatic.

Takes one to know one.

But thanks, stranger.

Such a cringe delay. No confidence in the product. GG, ggg.

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Vipure012 wrote:

Such a cringe delay. No confidence in the product. GG, ggg.

they have no confidence in the flake playerbase (myself included)

Example, wow classic...hit the game quite hard, about a quarter of the players went and played WoW classic and the drop off was quite bad for them as well as their lows in player count went flat for a few months.
So a 14 odd year old done to death basic game posed a problem for them, cyberpunk is getting a lot more hype and intrest, coupled with covid and the constant whine about the quality of the game...sure they are taking the chance to delay.

Can only hope it causes a lot of the constant whiners to quit permanently.

Stupidity intensifies.
What's better from a business standpoint - zero profit or lower profit?
You are operating for 8 years on a niche market, but you don't know your player base or what to expect. Cool story.

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lagwin1980 wrote:

Can only hope it causes a lot of the constant whiners to quit permanently.

If this forum had reasonable moderation but either "zero fucks given" or "witch hunters", you should get banned for this bullshit.
Same for "then go play D3" brigade.
As pushing active or future payers away directly affects company's profit and interests.

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lagwin1980 wrote:

So a 14 odd year old done to death basic game posed a problem for them

you directly imply that basic and old games are bad, inferior in some way?

ever heard of chess or go? try them.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

As the person who coined 'TencentGGG' (not to mention 'Skilldrasil', 'GGGold' and 'Skillgrimage'), I absolutely CBF explaining why I use it one more time, least of all to someone so out-of-touch to compare a simple yet meaningful portmeanteau (..)

"TencentGGG" is not a portmanteau. You might want to get in touch with the meaning yourself?

Nevermind. Do what thou wilt.

I, without any sarcasm, tried to be helpful. Soon you will complain again, that you are regarded as some kind of raging dinosaur, who accidentally missed the asteroid. Or was missed by the asteroid.

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Vipure012 wrote:

Such a cringe delay. No confidence in the product. GG, ggg.

I guess they have realized with full hardship now, that going Tencent made them loose the indie-next-door-bonus.

To my impression reddit was unforgiving like never before.

People are expecting a proper customer relationship now (at least I do). Going cosmetics-only doesn´t stop other developers from delivering much more polished expierience.
If they need the time to reorganize, fine.

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sidtherat wrote:

as someone who led projects and sw teams for years:

the 'new development methodology' they wave around is.. hot air

you cannot get different results when:
- you want to achieve the same thing
- you have the same people
- the same time span
- you do the change MONTH in, aka you have 2 months to achieve what you have planned for 3

Same but I have a different conclusion...feature creep was obviously a problem for their dev cycle. Having new internal processes to tamp this down can absolutely yield better results. It doesn't fix 100% of their problems by any stretch, but reducing the situation to 'same people, same goals, same time span' isn't nuanced enough, nor is it even accurate. They are changing their goals, as Chris said, develop using 50% fewer hours a league with less feature creep that still delivers the essentials of what players have come to expect.

If you think that's hot air go watch any cooking show where Gordan Ramsay or John Taffer turn around a kitchen - they are constantly showing chefs how to do more with less (with the same staff and time constraints). I can't tell if you're being a hater or if you were just an awfully narrow-minded project lead...

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torturo wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

if you have team issues for YEARS, you cannot fix it with the same TEAM

Your statement is correct

And to piggyback on my last post b/c I hadn't finished reading the thread when I made it - this statement is NOT correct. Leadership matters. This is a testable hypothesis. If the quoted statement is correct, then that would mean changing shift managers at a fast food restaurant or factory could NEVER yield more productivity. But we know this isn't true. Leadership matters. Systems matter.

You can find squad leaders in the military who can turn a 'problem group' into a real, functional platoon of soldiers because they are good at what they do, and understand people, psychology, relationships, and leadership. And they can succeed where other sergeants fail.

The past producer(s) were not doing a good job fighting scope/feature creep. This had downstream effects on QA. This affects the smooth/polished state of league launches. Instead of identifying the issue and nipping it in the bud they let it ride and got bit by compounding 'black swan complications'.

im kinda successful one, believe that or not

while i notice what is being said, i learnt long ago to ignore that and see what is being DONE. and what is being done is that the same few people are in charge of the game since its inception. doing the SAME stuff for years and being beacoup rewarded for that. and now suddenly when shit hit the fan (for the Nth time - this bit is VERY important) we are all going to bulldoze it and start anew? like WTF? seriously someone believes that?

you CAN teach old horse new tricks - but it takes TIME. and then i read in PR-damage control article that they are going to turn around X years of neglect and somehow fix it (correctly on the first try) in 10 days or so.. release the league as always (while splitting resources on poe2, fixing heist - task you can bet noone likes in the office, new league and who knows what else) and the only difference is 'slight scope reduction'?


you need time for that. old habits dont want to die. replacing people is always a greasy business and rebuilding a time takes up to 2 months (far longer than creating a new one). effectiveness (individual delivery and technical quality) might stay at previous level, but creative flow and communication - wont. it takes time. there is good science on all these managerial stuff: fixing OLD problems (new problems are MUCH easier), team break in, culture change.


if they told me they are switching their entire server infra from ibm to e3 or azure and they are going to to that in 2 weeks? id buy it. fixing years of managerial neglect and changing organization culture in 2 weeks? HELL NO. esp that you assume the change is going to be for 'better'.. it wont always be.

call that experience. believe or not. ive done these things and seen them being done - you cannot hasten this type of stuff.

this delay was inevitable and c2077 is a very good excuse. with that delay they at least have a chance (xmas period, 2nd c19 wave and various stuff wont help tho)