XP loss on death = time loss. Time loss = frustration/negative feelings.

Leveling to 100 is still an achievement, even if you do it in Standard (or any league). Doing some separate ez-mode league is going to take that achievement away from you and everyone else. Sort of an example, how many of you in a fresh league just throw your first build into Act 10 Kitava over and over? Do 5dmg, die, respawn, do 5dmg, die, respawn, and so on. So in the end you will just brute force level 100 and the charm will be gone. I don't see how a death counter being displayed by your character is going to dissuade anything. I created my witch (who is now 100) back in Bestiary league. She has died 352 times as of now. How does that impact anything and how does that make me go: oh no! I shouldn't die next time!

But if we're going to offer some hypothetical change maybe your portals should be bricked on death. Also, lose all your equipped gear and your skill tree is completely reset. Maybe that's enough reason to not die?

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Wladicorist1 wrote:

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Cyzax wrote:

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Wladicorist1 wrote:

What are your actual arguments "against" a seperated league that doesnt have the -10% exp penalty?

I'm not I_NO, but the same argument as for all other 'special' easy leagues... The more you do it, the more you dilute the player base, and you also 'lessen' the achievements of (in this case) getting to L100.

Getting to L100 is something you earn! You need to have a good build, you need to be good at playing, and you need the tenacity and patience to do it.
It is not something you're 'entitled' to...

Essentially the argument made for making it easier is the same as a middling golfer wanting the holes on the course made bigger, and the lengths of the course shortened so he can feel he's 'good'... Same principle...

PS: I never would try to go for L100. I consider a build finished at L90, with everything else a bonus. It's far more interesting to start a new build at L90 than continue brainlessly levelling it...
However, that doesn't mean I think achievements should be made easy just because some people fail at getting them...

i dont think you understood my question
what speaks against a seperated league?
whiteknights and uber progamers can have their leauges with -10% exp

A couple of reasons from the top of my head:

Splits the playerbase in half, Hardcore and SSF are niche modes that don't really hurt, and easy mode trade league would hurt, maybe even to the point where most of the playerbase play that instead of normal POE because modern generation of players need everything easy and for free.

Kills what's left of POEs reputation as a hardcore game, probably not even a reason for you but i am sure that a good part of the people at GGG don't want the game to become a casual snoozefest, at least not more than it already is

Giving people an easy way to level 100 would ruin it for everyone else unless the chars from easy league get deleted after league end but that would cause the next uproar. As soon as they move them to standard along with everyone else they might as well remove normal softcore.


/PS The fact that people have ways to "cheat" their way to 100 doesn't mean that everybody does it and even less that we should just make it a default. That's like saying "You can use a cheat code for god mode in this game so beating it is easy, why not make god mode the default?" If anything they should remove those "cheats" so that 100 has more of a meaning. Honestly, as far as i am concerned, if they remove the DP, they may just as well add the option for creating a level 100 character from the get go, saves the time wasted for leveling and if any moron can get there without even trying, then they can just remove it entirely.

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jack_aubrey wrote:

Leveling to 100 is still an achievement, even if you do it in Standard (or any league). Doing some separate ez-mode league is going to take that achievement away from you and everyone else.

You know funny story the creator of LFR in wow left blizzard and at his next job he openly admitted LFR was the worst mistake he's ever done to that game. One of his reasons was pretty similar to what you wrote.

For anyone who doesn't play wow, LFR is literally the casual version of raiding. You can meatgrind your way through it, the bosses tickle you, people simply join and leave if the boss somehow can't be killed in 1-2 tries but nonetheless they eventually get downed because there's a permanent stacking stat buff that makes it almost impossible to fail the fight after a certain point.

The guy who created this shitfest of a game mode attributed LFR as one of the major factors of wow's decline and he went on a pretty lengthy post explaining it.

So to people asking for some separate garbage league with no penalty: no. In fact I'm sure this suggestion was already beaten to death in that other thread so why drag that garbage over here.

[quote)"Baharoth15"] because modern generation of players need everything easy and for free.[/quote]
yes it would seperate the casuals and hardcore gamers
and what about it? the casuals wont cry about the penalty then and the core gamers wont flame them and wont be toxic either

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Giving people an easy way to level 100 would ruin it for everyone else unless the chars from easy league get deleted after league end but that would cause the next uproar. As soon as they move them to standard along with everyone else they might as well remove normal softcore.

why would it ruin for everyone else? i just dont get the point...
and why would you want to delete a progressed char? of course it would be better to have easy standart mode which is a seperate standart league
but that would be an issue server sided

If GGG was to introduce a casual league w/o death penalty, then the next step is players complaining about having to play the story each time or sustaining maps or whatever.

At that point GGG cant deny them that, because they themselves created a precedent and would either have to create yet another league or add it to the casual league.


Over time the playerbase would split into many leagues (all potentially suffering from a too low playercount for the economy to function properly) or they would have to allow one single league to literally turn into D3 or worse.

You refuse to acknowledge this or turn a blind eye.
The ones speaking out against stuff like this dont turn a blind eye and they can see this coming from a mile away. Thats why they are pushing back hard.

You want to play Path of Least Resistance not Path of Exile.
That fine, go do it and have fun - just stop demanding this game to turn into the shitshow that would follow, if your suggestion wouldnt fall on deaf ears.


I for one would quit this game in heartbeat the moment the death penalty is to be removed. I dont want to be around and witness what is pretty much guaranteed to be the result.

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Orbaal wrote:

If GGG was to introduce a casual league w/o death penalty, then the next step is players complaining about having to play the story each time or sustaining maps or whatever.

At that point GGG cant deny them that, because they themselves created a precedent and would either have to create yet another league or add it to the casual league.


Over time the playerbase would split into many leagues (all potentially suffering from a too low playercount for the economy to function properly) or they would have to allow one single league to literally turn into D3 or worse.

You refuse to acknowledge this or turn a blind eye.
The ones speaking out against stuff like this dont turn a blind eye and they can see this coming from a mile away. Thats why they are pushing back hard.

You want to play Path of Least Resistance not Path of Exile.
That fine, go do it and have fun - just stop demanding this game to turn into the shitshow that would follow, if your suggestion wouldnt fall on deaf ears.


I for one would quit this game in heartbeat the moment the death penalty is to be removed. I dont want to be around and witness what is pretty much guaranteed to be the result.

you interprete to much in that
the only thing i've been criticizing for eternity was the dp
if the other things above would be in the game i'd most likely leave it also

also why would i stop complaining about it and criticizing it
just because you said it? go on do the same what all the other whiteknights did
just inuslt me or talk down on me because thats the only thing people like these can do
and yep i'm a bad player so is it wrong to complaining about it being to harsh with the penalty?
i dont think so

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Wladicorist1 wrote:

you interprete to much in that
the only thing i've been criticizing for eternity was the dp
if the other things above would be in the game i'd most likely leave it also

also why would i stop complaining about it and criticizing it
just because you said it? go on do the same what all the other whiteknights did
just inuslt me or talk down on me because thats the only thing people like these can do
and yep i'm a bad player so is it wrong to complaining about it being to harsh with the penalty?
i dont think so

I never said you would be the one complaining about anything else than the death penalty - but others already do so and will continue doing so with much more fervor once any of those issues results in a major change or casual league.
Its always been like this, it never stops and always leads to a games demise.
Every single time.


And I wasnt talking down to you. I was merely pointing out whats most likely to happen next - which btw I dont blame you for.
You do your thing, I do mine. Thats all fine.

Also Im not a whiteknight. There is plenty stuff I disagree with but decided to accept or work around because the alternative is a shitshow like D3.

None of that matters at the end of the day. GGG wont listen to you or anyone else complaining about whatever and for good reason.
Right now they are trying to retain the status of a hardcore niche game as much as they can while also trying to casualize the game as much as the can - to a certain degree.
They know its gonna make them more money short term but its also going to wipe them out, when the next big mainstream ARPG like D4 for instance is released. Because no matter what GGG does in terms of casualzing the game, D4 will be more casual and will attract all of them.
It will suck the air out of the room and the only ones remaining will be the ones liking stuff like the death penalty or sustaining maps or what have you - in essence: a non casual ARPG.

Those are the core customers. Piss them off and make them leave and watch the game dying the second a true casual ARPG hits the market.

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Wladicorist1 wrote:

why would it ruin for everyone else? i just dont get the point...
and why would you want to delete a progressed char? of course it would be better to have easy standart mode which is a seperate standart league
but that would be an issue server sided

Well, even despite the options to just cheat your way there, being level 100 is still considered an achievement. It may not be a sign of great skill, but at the very least there is a lot of work attached to it. Either in the form of grinding the xp normally or by grinding the exalts needed to pay for all the breachstone rotas needed. One way or another, people take pride in it.

Now what do you think would happen if there was another league where people could make level 100 chars essentially for free? A league where essentially every active player would finish the league with one or even several level 100 builds. The mere existance of this league would shit all over the people who play normal POE and go through the trouble of actually working their way to level 100.

Having a league where you can get level 100 for free devalues the achievement for everyone. It's like GGG making a league where exalts have the droprate of ident scrolls, what do you think would happen to the market value of exalts in standard? It's the same thing with the level 100 achievement.

You keep talking about how you don't want a separate LEAGUE with no DP because it would split the playerbase further and possibly be a precedent/start a slippery slope - which is probably right, that's a real danger.

But do you think the same problem would occur if they were just to remove the Double Pen..... I mean Death Penalty in Standard? It already is the better option for casuals anyways. Those who like the more hardcore/challenging aspects of the game play in the temporary leagues anyways.
Would that devalue leagues too much? I cannot imagine everyone would suddenly stop playing the temp leagues because of that but casuals can have their no-progress-lost "easy" mode that way - or whatever you want to call it

As I said before, I actually don't think PoE needs to remove death EXP penalty, but simply it would be better to relocate it towards the ran content.

That way, they wouldn't change much, except for the depression you get from dying and losing a noticeable 10% EXP chunk on the bar past level 95.

They should also allow us to customize the number of attempts and intertwine the number of portals with a bonus to EXP and/or loot (not more loot, but better quality loot), and make that one scale further with a decreasing number of portals - aka 1 attempt at content should reward the highest reward.

They could also scale better the EXP gain penalty, by actually adhere to a proper difficulty ratio based on a sane danger/reward outcome, so you should always get the BEST loot/EXP when you run CHALLENGING content.

Implement them in Standard for the duration of a league, and if they actually have the noticeable effect of seeing players improve their skill and focus on running the end game content as soon and/or often they are capable to, they could simply let them forever in.

This way they will profit by making the casuals IMPROVE THEIR SKILL, as they will always have the "you lost only the limited progression you earned for the instance you played" card. That would not change in the least the semblance of "hardcoreness" the Softcore has, but would prompt a change in the zerging and survivability strategies of the players - you need to actually survive the instance to get the "goodies"...

Then they would simply have to make "Labyrinth" random on each Ascendancy run and make the level 83 ones replace the "Uber Labyrinth", and start the run with the second one as the power creep will soon grant us the cool 6Ls on gems so multiple skills will be an option to already ROFL STOMP most content...

They need to stick to a better way to do highlight character problems as early as possible to make the casuals "git gud" and adapt to PoE being "difficult"...