XP loss on death = time loss. Time loss = frustration/negative feelings.

As the BIGGEST CASUAL N00B HOARDER that made it to 100 in Standard on a character that grinded the required 99 - 100 EXP 3, and I am serious about it, 3 times, let me state that there isn't as much a problem of death EXP penalty, as it's more about death EXP penalty + EXP gain penalty + no sane danger/reward ratio EXP wise (true until Delirium and Simulacrum at least).

I always ask, how many of us 100 level possessors reached 100 by leveling versus ONLY THE END GAME? And then how many actually played same build to 100 with real focus on skillplay (regarding improving our own abilities to manage content damage capped/starved I mean)?

TencentGGG messed up. No more, no less.

The death EXP penalty should HIGHLIGHT you "bite more than you can chew", yet it never does that properly even when it hurts, post level 95, simply because they added more rewarding content EXP wise, on a close to 0 danger level.

The Delirium league introduction of T19 full deliriumed maps and Simulacrum, that are actually not only rewarding loot wise, but also EXP wise, was a breath of fresh air.

I'm not even discussing the asinine balance that allows broken options for abusing items/skills/mechanics and/or interactions to get bazillion damage or fully immune characters, but please consider that to manage regular juiced T16 Aw 8 content you simply need a decent character AND NO TIME LIMIT (if damage capped, time limited content is a damn plague, so much that for that epic Hello Kitty less impact on death EXP penalty, all the damn timed encounters should be reworked to PERMANENT ones)...

I fully support adding a "casual n00b league", by simply removing the timer (or at least increasing it exponentially based on tier and Awakening + character level) on all the timed encounters AND moving the damn death EXP penalty, you read that right, so it's about MOVING IT to the content ran - the EXP gained is based only on the instance, so the only limit is making ALL the content provide the EXP bonus on area played.

Death would work perfectly by removing the EXP of the area, and keeping casuals limited with a number of up to 6 portals IS ENOUGH.

You might lose time, but you would always try to improve yourself and actually have a chance to run all the END GAME content as soon as you meet it.

Then they should properly balance danger/reward ratios for ALL THE GAME, so you are FAIRLY rewarded the higher difficulty of the content you manage, not only loot wise, but also EXP wise...

There you go, a nice, proper alternative to all the players crying they need an easier game, and all the elitists that feel the urge to be "superior"...

"

plaguefear wrote:

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

"

plaguefear wrote:

Explain why i would take advice on tankiness from a snarky insulting guy who's highest ever character is 3 levels below my own?
I might as well go ask a fisherman how to sky dive.

For your information, 98-96 is 2 level difference, not 3. No wonder your builds don't work out with that level of math skills.

Besides, your just using excuses here for why you keep whining instead of working on your builds. So you don't take my advice because i am a newb with lower level than you. And i guess you don't take I_Nos and Jamfaces advice because they are no lifers right? So everyone with lower level than you is a newb and everyone with higher level is a no lifer, leaving you as the only person on this planet qualified to talk about this topic?

I think you have some real problems man, and the DP has nothing to do with them.

Again, you are not qualified to talk on it because you have literally no experience in it, a death at 98 is nothing like a death at 96, its not even comparable, its 20 minutes vs 2 hours work.
And if you know as much as you claim about the game you would already have a 100.
I_no and jamface do not have melee 100's either, they play same meta crap everyone else does.

I certainly do have a melee char that is fully cable of hitting 100 writing in the forum isn't going to make you any better nor trying to talk down others who are fairly obviously more experienced then yourself like right now what you're doing is like pure meme stop it.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

the EXP gained is based only on the instance, so the only limit is making ALL the content provide the EXP bonus on area played.

Death would work perfectly by removing the EXP of the area, and keeping casuals limited with a number of up to 6 portals IS ENOUGH.

You might lose time, but you would always try to improve yourself and actually have a chance to run all the END GAME content as soon as you meet it.

That would be great, yeah.

You're also probably spot-on with the question "how many players reached 100 in hard stuff" - I would love to know what % of players reached 100 with pure chayula/breach runs

"

I_NO wrote:

I certainly do have a melee char that is fully cable of hitting 100 writing in the forum isn't going to make you any better nor trying to talk down others who are fairly obviously more experienced then yourself like right now what you're doing is like pure meme stop it.

if you could stop talking down to others not be as good as you mr 40/40 every league
what are your actual arguments "against" a seperated league that doesnt have the -10% exp penalty?

"

Wladicorist1 wrote:

What are your actual arguments "against" a seperated league that doesnt have the -10% exp penalty?

I'm not I_NO, but the same argument as for all other 'special' easy leagues... The more you do it, the more you dilute the player base, and you also 'lessen' the achievements of (in this case) getting to L100.

Getting to L100 is something you earn! You need to have a good build, you need to be good at playing, and you need the tenacity and patience to do it.
It is not something you're 'entitled' to...

Essentially the argument made for making it easier is the same as a middling golfer wanting the holes on the course made bigger, and the lengths of the course shortened so he can feel he's 'good'... Same principle...

PS: I never would try to go for L100. I consider a build finished at L90, with everything else a bonus. It's far more interesting to start a new build at L90 than continue brainlessly levelling it...
However, that doesn't mean I think achievements should be made easy just because some people fail at getting them...

"

plaguefear wrote:

The numbers i stated are as listed on my defences page, which in any rpg game in history would be where you go to check your defences, crazy right?

Ever heard of the concept of the Lying Stat Sheet?

Looking at tooltips/your character screen will not list everything you have or their practical effect on your character. This was a thing back in 1ED&D, for chrissakes. Every game omits certain statistics that would otherwise be relevant for a build (such as, let's say, unique item powers or keystone passives). This is in part why programs like PoB exist, even though it too has LSS issues.

"

Cyzax wrote:

Getting to L100 is something you earn! You need to have a good build, you need to be good at playing, and you need the tenacity and patience to do it.
It is not something you're 'entitled' to...

]

Totally false. You have Pure Rotas, Delirium Rotas, Coward rotas, etc. You can be a complete moronic player and still hit 100. I bet 98% of level 100s in trade league used that. And guess? They are still bad players that die to a telegraphed aoe one-shot, they just don't care because they have 6 portals and nothing to lose. I'd go even far and say at least 60% in SSF do the same.

Again, if level 100 is easy, it's not needed for builds, and doesn't make anyone better at playing, what is left to justify it?

The psychological aspect. GGGCent thinks PoE thinks it's a souls game and that losing something on death makes the game "hardcore". Just that it isn't. Souls games are not ARPGs, you don't have bullshits like random damage. PoE bosses and monsters are not scripted, it's not a simple question of "git gud" like many trolls like to say.

Wanna know? I won't beat the dead horse. I could spend whole weekend argumenting why exp loss doesn't make sense anymore with trolls like Baharot and else, but I'm just tired. Exercise in futility.

@Walrus what surprises me is that you use him as an example.

"

frostzor27 wrote:

"

Cyzax wrote:

Getting to L100 is something you earn! You need to have a good build, you need to be good at playing, and you need the tenacity and patience to do it.
It is not something you're 'entitled' to...

]

Totally false. You have Pure Rotas, Delirium Rotas, Coward rotas, etc. You can be a complete moronic player and still hit 100. I bet 98% of level 100s in trade league used that. And guess? They are still bad players that die to a telegraphed aoe one-shot, they just don't care because they have 6 portals and nothing to lose. I'd go even far and say at least 60% in SSF do the same.

So your argument is it's too easy? I can agree to that... :-p

It is still not any reason to make it even easier by removing the death penalty!

It is an achievement that you can earn. The criteria might not be perfect (as you mention), but it is still the 'rules' for the achievement.

Now, if we move away from the L100 discussion, the death penalty is also important for lower levels, and that is because it is:
1. Preventing PoE from becoming a glass-cannon game
2. Helping players improve their builds and their playing abilities

In general, more people value a game that is hard compared to one that is easy...

"

Cyzax wrote:

So your argument is it's too easy? I can agree to that... :-p

It is still not any reason to make it even easier by removing the death penalty!

It is an achievement that you can earn. The criteria might not be perfect (as you mention), but it is still the 'rules' for the achievement.

Now, if we move away from the L100 discussion, the death penalty is also important for lower levels, and that is because it is:
1. Preventing PoE from becoming a glass-cannon game
2. Helping players improve their builds and their playing abilities

In general, more people value a game that is hard compared to one that is easy...

Again totally false. You can glasscannon your life and pay for level 100.

Don't false argument pretending every people get to level 100 by skill, it's false. And exp loss has the same effect on this as a lit lamp during the day.

The only and only purpose a game has exp loss in 2020 is to frustrate its players.

You yourself admit it's easy in PoE, so makes no sense. And instead of GGGCent listening to suggestions and making a different system that really punishes bad playing it keeps this bs 'cause "muh git gud" crowd.

Anyway leavin here too... Don't wanna get baned again because GGGCent can't accept criticism.

"

Cyzax wrote:

"

Wladicorist1 wrote:

What are your actual arguments "against" a seperated league that doesnt have the -10% exp penalty?

I'm not I_NO, but the same argument as for all other 'special' easy leagues... The more you do it, the more you dilute the player base, and you also 'lessen' the achievements of (in this case) getting to L100.

Getting to L100 is something you earn! You need to have a good build, you need to be good at playing, and you need the tenacity and patience to do it.
It is not something you're 'entitled' to...

Essentially the argument made for making it easier is the same as a middling golfer wanting the holes on the course made bigger, and the lengths of the course shortened so he can feel he's 'good'... Same principle...

PS: I never would try to go for L100. I consider a build finished at L90, with everything else a bonus. It's far more interesting to start a new build at L90 than continue brainlessly levelling it...
However, that doesn't mean I think achievements should be made easy just because some people fail at getting them...

i dont think you understood my question
what speaks against a seperated league?
whiteknights and uber progamers can have their leauges with -10% exp