XP loss on death = time loss. Time loss = frustration/negative feelings.

"

respon wrote:

Spoiler

The biggest misconception most players have about this game it that max level here is the same as in Diablo or any other MMO for that matter, where it is a mandatory step towards the end game.

Just because you can reach level 100 it doesn't mean that any character is incomplete without it. We should honestly treat any levels beyond 90 as prestige levels because level 90 and 95 are in practice a threshold of sorts with casuals players usually hitting the wall around level 90, "gamers" (as in people who play by the book and have proper builds, but not necessarily passion or dedication) hitting 95 regularly and only the most dedicated players going anywhere near 100.

Challenge is needed for an achievement to feel satisfying and reaching level 100 is an achievement, not milestone.

That said, all of the above kind of depends on content being balanced, and since we all know that is not the case it is hard to argue that dying at high levels feels super bad if paired with BS damage spike or some other factors outside of "normal" content difficulty.

It's actually the reverse.

The biggest misconception introduced by PoE, is that additional gain EXP penalty and the "soft cap" of the evolution post level 90 IS REQUIRED.

PoE is an outlier in the ARPG genre regarding this aspect, and sadly, it was never a great decision, not to mention they never comprehended that granting no EXP penalty after you level up and keep the EXP bar at 0% is a bigger problem than artificially walling the last 10 levels behind lower enemy levels.

PoE should have properly relied on a prolonged grind, but it would have done wonders if it actually also correctly implemented a fast track option with a more rewarding danger/reward ratio - Delirium scaling should have been ALWAYS employed for ALL THE END GAME CONTENT, but it was easier to rely on additional gain EXP penalty to address the power creep "because reasons"...

As I said before, getting 100 these days is less of an achievement that it was at 1.0.0, simply due to the fact that there are too many options to fast track leveling past 95 at a skewed danger/reward ratio compared to T16 regular, or even up to T19 delirium juiced maps (Beachheads, pure breachstones 4-5 way emblem runs, Coward's Trial and Poorjoy's are all "less danger, more reward" scenarios)...

Simulacrum at least provides decent EXP, compared to Shaper, Uber Atziri/Elder, Sirus Aw 8 and that scaling should have actually been addressed a very long time ago, by actually making the difficult enemies worthwhile to kill from an EXP gain point of view...

Every character is incomplete without it reaching 100. It might be easier to swallow this aspect due to the harshness to reach 100, but it should never be questioned...

It can take a very long time to get to 100, but it can also take a very short time too. And that is great.

The problem is that the very short time is not properly adjusted via danger/reward ratios. And that is one of PoE biggest mistakes...

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Spoiler

It's actually the reverse.

The biggest misconception introduced by PoE, is that additional gain EXP penalty and the "soft cap" of the evolution post level 90 IS REQUIRED.

PoE is an outlier in the ARPG genre regarding this aspect, and sadly, it was never a great decision, not to mention they never comprehended that granting no EXP penalty after you level up and keep the EXP bar at 0% is a bigger problem than artificially walling the last 10 levels behind lower enemy levels.

PoE should have properly relied on a prolonged grind, but it would have done wonders if it actually also correctly implemented a fast track option with a more rewarding danger/reward ratio - Delirium scaling should have been ALWAYS employed for ALL THE END GAME CONTENT, but it was easier to rely on additional gain EXP penalty to address the power creep "because reasons"...

As I said before, getting 100 these days is less of an achievement that it was at 1.0.0, simply due to the fact that there are too many options to fast track leveling past 95 at a skewed danger/reward ratio compared to T16 regular, or even up to T19 delirium juiced maps (Beachheads, pure breachstones 4-5 way emblem runs, Coward's Trial and Poorjoy's are all "less danger, more reward" scenarios)...

Simulacrum at least provides decent EXP, compared to Shaper, Uber Atziri/Elder, Sirus Aw 8 and that scaling should have actually been addressed a very long time ago, by actually making the difficult enemies worthwhile to kill from an EXP gain point of view...

Every character is incomplete without it reaching 100. It might be easier to swallow this aspect due to the harshness to reach 100, but it should never be questioned...

It can take a very long time to get to 100, but it can also take a very short time too. And that is great.

The problem is that the very short time is not properly adjusted via danger/reward ratios. And that is one of PoE biggest mistakes...

I guess it is also a valid way to look at it.
So it all boils down to game design and the direction in which it is shaped with each new expansion.

The one thing that we agree on is that level 100 is reachable by most dedicated players, whenever it is easier now than before, it still cuts off 99% of players (pure guess, league stats might be more accurate).

Majority of defense and dps from passives is obtained within points earned up to level 90 with the last 10 point contributing to at most 10-15% increase (if build properly prioritizes high value nodes).
In most cases build power after level 70-80 is almost entirely tied to currency invested into it, and that is a thing that is (or rather was, with introduction of contraband) independent of player dying, so grinding your way to level 100 even when not earning xp is still building up your character power, even if in very inconsistent and RNG dependent way.

I would rather get 4 builds that I want to try out to 96 myself without breachstones than getting to level 100.

The entire lvl 100 thing is laughable for todays standards for games anyway.

The death penalty and the way they designed fights and monsters along with some absurd mods should tell you the objective of the endgame already.. either do breachstones or just ignore your exp bar and die as much as you like.

Not something I see dev's changing in this game ever.. specially the death penalty along with some joke mods that monsters get that clearly are more anti-fun than something challenging.

The fact of the matter is any decent human being doesn't necessarily know how to play the game, have the free pot smoking time to play like you do, and learn from dying instantly with no knowledge of why and how to go from there. It's a fact that I see long lines of supporter icons in any post from a troll.

You have experience of the development of the game, which a lot haven't and it now needs to develop beyond your elitist crap trolling. You think you're so cool and smart but you also paid someone shitload of money for no rights to the game whatsoever other than lining pockets. And before you say anything, I have spent exactly a PC games worth of money on this game.

And get rid of the stupid Xp loss please.

And no, not you Xystre - your post made sense.

Without XP loss you can abuse it. It's necessary .

Hell no, Lvl 100 must be hard

"

ched_21h wrote:

Hell no, Lvl 100 must be hard

spamming pure breach runs

"hard"

ok.

"

Xystre wrote:

"

ched_21h wrote:

Hell no, Lvl 100 must be hard

spamming pure breach runs

"hard"

ok.

Spamming pure breachstone rotas is for those who can't deal with "hard". It's not the only way to get there. People playing SSF will hardly be able to use breachstones or rotas for leveling.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

"

Xystre wrote:

"

ched_21h wrote:

Hell no, Lvl 100 must be hard

spamming pure breach runs

"hard"

ok.

Spamming pure breachstone rotas is for those who can't deal with "hard". It's not the only way to get there. People playing SSF will hardly be able to use breachstones or rotas for leveling.

Yeah but "SSF" is absolute another world.

Nothing to do with my point regardless.

It's not "hard".

2020 culture needs to understand that nothing is "hard" it's just tedious, pointless and meaningless in the bigger picture.

Reaching to level 100 in path of exile is just that. But I'm sure those reaching level 100 every single league playing 700+ hours each league are patting themselves on the back when they get to 100.

I have a strange idea. How about making the death penalty a choice during character creation? Like a checkbox. If you disable the penalty, then that character's max level becomes 95.