dear GGG a message of love that many others seem to support (Mathil Video link below)

this discussion is closed for me... il go watch a movie.
i can't wait for next league,i will finally have more time to play :)
may RNGESUS be with you,you big babyes

this would be true if everyone wanting to change something is actually new...

"if"

"

BlackPulsar wrote:

"

brushmonkey wrote:

pricing them out of reach of said new players.

than make another build.

well yes, they would have to which was my point.

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

Talking about "average" players and throwing around percentiles is misleading (at best) because those numbers don't matter (for a very, very long list of reasons that aren't even worth getting into now).

Here's the only question that SHOULD matter, and it's the one a lot of people just aren't asking:

"Who should Path of Exile be for?" or if you prefer, "Who IS this game's target audience?"

If this game's target audience is the best people playing it, that means the game should cater to them instead of everyone else because that's what makes a game - literally any game, not just POE - good. All of the people shrieking about how they quit if deterministic crafting is taken away seem to be somehow forgetting that POE isn't just product for GGG, it's a labor of love. It's the ARPG they want to play, not just the one they want to make.

Look at it this way: when you go to a restaurant, you order what the chef chose to put on the menu. If you wanted a hamburger and the restaurant doesn't have one, you can either do your best to enjoy the things the chef has, maybe even trying something new that the chef has worked very hard on making for you and everyone else to enjoy, or you can leave and go to McDonald's. Throwing a fit in the restaurant isn't going to get you what you want.

Grinding Gear has quite clearly demonstrated, through years of word and deed, that they have zero interest in being McDonald's. This game's history began because a couple of guys in New Zealand were sick of having no alternatives to McDonald's. This is why the "percentages" arguments are worthless and irrelevant.

Maybe your vision of what POE should be might not be the same as the game developers, and that's okay! But if you literally can't conceive of playing a game without an item editor, then you honestly should quit. No hard feelings on either side; it just means that you aren't hungry for what the GGG chefs have on their menu. Demanding that a restaurant change its menu to suit YOUR cravings is childish, insulting, and ignorant.

Fun fact: McDonald's can be quite the luxury experience in China.. List of 20, and 3 of them are in China/Hong Kong. Not quite as upmarket as KFC (when I went there back in 2008, there were people paid simply to open the door for guests!), but still -- a slightly relevant bitter edge to your analogy. At this point I think it's really stretching it to call PoE devs 'chefs' given the breakneck schedule, repetitive gimmicky output and prioritisation of exporting their hard work to another country to be polished and rebranded as a premium game with relatively low-impact pay-to-win features. At this point, a more assembly-line approach would be preferable; at least that way there'd be adequate QA. Not exactly what I'd expect of fine dining degustation, but maybe decent enough for oh, I dunno, Red Lobster.

Restaurants change their menus all the time based on consumer feedback and reception. Even the really snobbish ones, if the feedback and reception comes from the right people no-names-mentioned-KAREN. Unfortunately for your analogy, GGG do not produce food of any nature -- they sell a highly compelling experience governed almost entirely by a house-always-win RNG and the acceptance therefore that winning is a state of simply not-losing-catastrophically. And yes, it's free to play, but that doesn't mean they're not selling all the creature comforts a regular user soon learns they can't live without. Not even an argument at this point.

Lastly, the distinct lack of competition and options really rips the wind from this analogy's sails. If you don't like what a chef is serving, it's true: telling them so probably won't make much difference (depending on the nature of your feedback perhaps) -- but you can usually go somewhere else that will offer up a similar experience. Or, at least, a different but equally good one. No game out there is quite like PoE, for better or worse. Certain upstarts are aiming to be as good but in their own way. Relevant to something else you said, one of them has a brilliant deterministic crafting system baked into its every layer, accessible at any time. It's an excellent 'option' if that's what you want from an ARPG. But if you want the multiplayer, the vast if volatile flexibility of support gems, totally-not-unbalanced Ascendancy classes, the fallacy of diversity that is the skill tree, the abhorrent but somehow addictive trading scene, and the supermarket freshness of competitive game-changing leagues every 3 months, PoE is pretty much it for now and the foreseeable future.

Forget restaurants and chefs, this is about a whole other sort of service.

And you don't need to be Walter White when you're the only lab in town.

But I suppose if calling the devs 'chefs' helps retain one's view of the game as something not insidiously predatory on the addictive personality and GGG being 100% aware of this, meaning no real need to suffer the players' uninvited grievances, that's fair enough. Maybe they'd be chefs in China, where McDonald's is indeed a little bit fancy, while excellent local cuisine is ridiculously cheap and taken for granted. Funny saying that in regards to a 'home grown' game studio from New Zealand but I guess you lose that cred when you sell out as magnificently, as spectacularly, as GGG did.

__

As for Mathil: he's one side of the Australian PoE Advocate coin, the sceptical, no-bullshit side that can come across as abrasive. ZiggyD was/is the other side, the happy-go-lucky, give-it-a-go-mate angle that is easily misconstrued as overeager or even obsequious. Between the two of them, there's a fairly complete, balanced picture of Australian gaming attitude. I'm biased though; my one experience of watching Mathil's stream was him saying Chris should be working on Christmas Eve instead of playing PoE, which I found unnecessarily harsh and sufficient a taste of his 'style' for my likes. If indeed he is representative of this player base, I'm happy to no longer count myself a member of such.

And Ziggy, well, it only cost me $12,500US to put a huge smile on his face, and I do not regret it one bit.

__

...I wonder which part of this harmless rant will somehow trip Support's trigger. I honestly can't even tell anymore. Maybe this part. If you can read this, I consider myself lucky, but you likely don't.

The main problem I see here is people playing hard builds.

Do you want to finish 95% of the game while investing 2-3 EX? Go for a miner.

Wanna take it easy on the hands and spamming? Sure, do a Necro. With around 30 exalts you can do all content. Newbie me, last league did Sirus 8, Uber Atziri, Aul, Uber Elder. Last league was my second league.

The biggest problem I see with people playing this game is that they're not willing to take the path of least resistance. If most pro players start with a miner, who the heck are you with minimal experience, a lot less knowledge, worse reflexes, that you think you can overcome everything and just play whatever you want?

Like, let's think about anything else in life. You start off with the easiest strategy, and then you advance. Does it really hurt you that much to play a miner/summoner for 1-2 weeks and then do your dream build?


There are a few easy builds out there. Start with those, do hard content, get a lot of exalts, and win the game. And I don't really buy this whole "I don't like playing this build". Like dude, you are literally destroying the whole screen. What is not to like about that? I mean sure, I don't really like totems for example, but when I watch a showcase build where the guy destroys everything in sight, suddenly, I feel like it's not such a bad build archetype.


In my first league (first league that I played more than just the Campaign and a few maps) I played a Nebuloch Jugg. Still farmed around 15 ex and did Sirus 8 (prebuff). That was my first league where I really played. I was farming a map in 10-15 minutes, and I mostly did Yellow maps cause I was getting one shot in red maps because I didn't really know what mods to do and which to avoid. So I just bought some Ivory Watchstones and rekt Sirus 8 first time with a tanky build.

Now if me, with minimal knowledge can do that with an average build, I'm sure you can do it too. Sure, you may have to stop at Sirus 7 since 8 now is a bit bonkers compared to 7, but that's still good.


And I really can't understand this currency complaining. This league I only had 1 day where I farmed below 1 ex per hour. Like lvl 83 Delve provides a lot more than 1 ex per hour. So you just go braindead in the mine, from node to node, destroy Fractured Walls and can easily make more than 1 ex per hour. If you play 2 hours a day that is 14 ex a week.

And don't get me started on selling seeds. You were able to buy red maps bulk, run them without any mods, and just sell the seeds. Enter map, get seed cache, maybe kill boss, sell seeds. That is a lot more than 1 ex per hour. I think I made around 30 ex around just from selling tier 1 seeds.

2 weeks and you got yourself a top tier build. Sure, you may not have an explody chest and all that, but you don't really need those to do most content. Check out the gear that my Necro had (AthenaShade). That is around 30 ex. And you don't need all that chaos res, so you can probably trim it down to 20 ex. And it's a crap build cause I wasn't using Cluster Jewels, and it's also a crap build cause I was trying to main zombies, which were heavily nerfed.


Now, what I do think the game needs, is to be a bit faster until you get to maps. That stuff takes a lot. 10-12 hours to get to maps. If people play 2 hours a day, that's a whole week to get to maps. They should probably fix this.

I don't see how they could do that best, but off the top of my head, I'd just have an option that if you finished the campaign already, then you only need to do 5 acts. And you get to choose which 5 acts. You can make it so that you get to kill Kitava the first time you encounter him.

Double/triple the xp until that point, so you get to maps at the same level as you do now. And now even players that have 2 hours a day to play can still get to maps in 2-3 days.


Or you can start from maps at lvl level one.


They could probably leave Harvest for Solo Self Found though. I think it would help that part of the game a lot more. They would have to make so that you get a lot more encounters than 10%.

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

working on Christmas Eve instead of playing PoE

when did mathil say this? i'm not defending anyone btw i just like what he said in the video about how entitled and demanding people got on this league,i was just glad seeing someone more popular share this opinion,noone said mathil is the face of poe,for me this is all just about people saing they leave if the league does not stay...

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

I'm happy to no longer count myself a member of such.

you mean you're leaving poe? i am mostly sad to see the old players leave...

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

As for Mathil: ... can come across as abrasive. ZiggyD was/is the other side, give-it-a-go-mate angle. My one experience of watching Mathil's stream was him saying Chris should be working on Christmas Eve instead of playing PoE, which I found unnecessarily harsh and sufficient a taste of his 'style' for my likes. If indeed he is representative of this player base, I'm happy to no longer count myself a member of such.

And Ziggy, well, it only cost me $12,500US to put a huge smile on his face, and I do not regret it one bit.

I agree, I personally don't like labeling one streamer better than the other but Ziggy does seem much more positive and Mathil has seemed to be somewhat toxic at times from what I have seen on his streams or too clingy to the old days, can't let go of the past or not welcome to any significant creative changes to the game even if it were balanced, thus preventing any kind of actual progress in the development of the game.

ZiggyD sees the positive of Harvest it seems, which is good while Mathil just focused on the negative aspect of Harvest with target removing/add op gear/weapons. I can't really take Mathil seriously if he can't at least outline some positive aspects of Harvest, which there are a lot besides just the harmful too easy to acquire op weapons/gear part. That's only 1 part of Harvest, by the way, there is much more to harvest that is not harmful to the long term enjoyment or burnout of the game with belt enchants, flask enchants, link/socket/color, map crafting infused currencies, boss fights, Oshabi fight, build the Garden aspect that everyone enjoys that is not harmful to the game and actually enhances it. It's just a shame that the devs don't deem this as necessary enough to bring to the game sooner or give it the necessary balances it requires to be core to the game with 3.12 and just want to bring it to the game "in the future", which who knows what that might mean given how vague it is. We can only hope that Harvest will be balanced enough by the devs to be brought into the game at least after 3.12 or maybe even during it if time permits.

I listened to Mathil's video and there is a bit of truth in it. GGG introduces every 3 months something completely bat shit crazy, it always causes controversy, it comes in waves.
There are a lot of people who dislike the direction of these shifts, some did already quit, others will quit, new ones will join, cycle continues.

I fucking hate! HATE! Harvest and I am glad it goes away, other than crafting it didn't bring nothing to the game and since I pretty much hate current endgame style with Sirus as BS boss on top, I am hoping for some major rework in this aspect. But the only light at the end of the tunnel is PoE2 as I do not expect Conquerors Atlas to be scratched from the game before 4.0, since these changes to endgame usually occur through some major expansions.

PoE2 idea in the future is basically only thing that keeps me interested in PoE currently. Till that release, i do not expect to do anything else but to try some silly shit I haven't played in the past 7 years.

"

MLGonthorian wrote:

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

As for Mathil: ... can come across as abrasive. ZiggyD was/is the other side, give-it-a-go-mate angle. My one experience of watching Mathil's stream was him saying Chris should be working on Christmas Eve instead of playing PoE, which I found unnecessarily harsh and sufficient a taste of his 'style' for my likes. If indeed he is representative of this player base, I'm happy to no longer count myself a member of such.

And Ziggy, well, it only cost me $12,500US to put a huge smile on his face, and I do not regret it one bit.

I agree, I personally don't like labeling one streamer better than the other but Ziggy does seem much more positive and Mathil has seemed to be somewhat toxic at times from what I have seen on his streams or too clingy to the old days, can't let go of the past or not welcome to any significant creative changes to the game even if it were balanced, thus preventing any kind of actual progress in the development of the game.

ZiggyD sees the positive of Harvest it seems, which is good while Mathil just focused on the negative aspect of Harvest with target removing/add op gear/weapons. I can't really take Mathil seriously if he can't at least outline some positive aspects of Harvest, which there are a lot besides just the harmful too easy to acquire op weapons/gear part. That's only 1 part of Harvest, by the way, there is much more to harvest that is not harmful to the long term enjoyment or burnout of the game with belt enchants, flask enchants, link/socket/color, map crafting infused currencies, boss fights, Oshabi fight, build the Garden aspect that everyone enjoys that is not harmful to the game and actually enhances it. It's just a shame that the devs don't deem this as necessary enough to bring to the game sooner or give it the necessary balances it requires to be core to the game with 3.12 and just want to bring it to the game "in the future", which who knows what that might mean given how vague it is. We can only hope that Harvest will be balanced enough by the devs to be brought into the game at least after 3.12 or maybe even during it if time permits.

that coment was enormous and spoke of many aspects of the game,you cut out part of it to get back to your rant that you want harvest league...
this is what pissed me off.
i rarely make any suggestions... i asked for some well known mtx bugs to be fixed a long time ago and they did get fixed fast
but make demands?or say i would leave the game if ggg does not do what i say?
i cringe just when i imagine my self doing that.

"

BlackPulsar wrote:

i rarely make any suggestions... i asked for some well known mtx bugs to be fixed a long time ago and they did get fixed fast
but make demands?or say i would leave the game if ggg does not do what i say?
i cringe just when i imagine my self doing that.

Flawed logic tactic to try to invalidate people's concerns with Harvest not going core I'm afraid, I did not threaten anything in any of my posts and simply said that I as well as many others will be disappointed heavily if Harvest does not go core at least soon, that ≠ threats/demands.

And even if some did threaten to quit the game if Harvest does not go core, what is wrong with that? People are not entitled to an opinion now? Or should we just accept every decision thrown at us like subservient/complacent people without any choices or agency? People come and go all the time due to some decisions and not everyone has the same tastes or outlooks on what they like about the game. Using some massive streamer's opinion as some soapbox for "all of the community" does not seem very fair and quite bias indeed. It's like what I've said in the past, I'm open to people's opinions, but if it's just one-sided and can't even outline some positive aspects of Harvest, then that's simply flawed. I at least acknowledge that there are game-breaking aspects to Harvest, but they don't have to keep everything that was bad with Harvest as there is more that was non-harmful that DID NOT involve target crafting that DOES have a place in the game.