dear GGG a message of love that many others seem to support (Mathil Video link below)

Pardon me for casually using words in an imprecise manner again. It was meant to be "you" in a collective sense, where many people would just trade to get an item upgrade instead of crafting it. I am guilty of this myself.

"

Elhazzared wrote:

Next he goes on to say that harvest is an item editor. Mathil my boy. Harvest is an item editor for you and at best the top 20% of the player base. For everyone else, harvest isn't even enough. I'm probably around the top 40% of the player base and I can't do anything with harvest, not for the lack of trying, not for the lack of knowledge. It just requires too much time investment for someone average, even for someone a little above the average like me.

If you can't do anything with Harvest, why do you still want it in the game?

"

brushmonkey wrote:

pricing them out of reach of said new players.

than make another build.

Talking about "average" players and throwing around percentiles is misleading (at best) because those numbers don't matter (for a very, very long list of reasons that aren't even worth getting into now).

Here's the only question that SHOULD matter, and it's the one a lot of people just aren't asking:

"Who should Path of Exile be for?" or if you prefer, "Who IS this game's target audience?"

If this game's target audience is the best people playing it, that means the game should cater to them instead of everyone else because that's what makes a game - literally any game, not just POE - good. All of the people shrieking about how they quit if deterministic crafting is taken away seem to be somehow forgetting that POE isn't just product for GGG, it's a labor of love. It's the ARPG they want to play, not just the one they want to make.

Look at it this way: when you go to a restaurant, you order what the chef chose to put on the menu. If you wanted a hamburger and the restaurant doesn't have one, you can either do your best to enjoy the things the chef has, maybe even trying something new that the chef has worked very hard on making for you and everyone else to enjoy, or you can leave and go to McDonald's. Throwing a fit in the restaurant isn't going to get you what you want.

Grinding Gear has quite clearly demonstrated, through years of word and deed, that they have zero interest in being McDonald's. This game's history began because a couple of guys in New Zealand were sick of having no alternatives to McDonald's. This is why the "percentages" arguments are worthless and irrelevant.

Maybe your vision of what POE should be might not be the same as the game developers, and that's okay! But if you literally can't conceive of playing a game without an item editor, then you honestly should quit. No hard feelings on either side; it just means that you aren't hungry for what the GGG chefs have on their menu. Demanding that a restaurant change its menu to suit YOUR cravings is childish, insulting, and ignorant.

oh, POE got so close to fast-food in terms of pacing, one-click gameplay, eyes-closed gameplay and general taking game out of the game (replacing it with time-based progression) that you cannot be closer without becoming a clicker (and spellslinger builds, literally ONE click builds are very, very close in 'difficulty' to actual clicker game)

and that labour of love.. it is possible. it definitely seemed so in closed beta. right now there are issues being left for years, design decisions making no sense and botched reworks that almost all flopped because the designers have little to no touch with their game anymore

sure, make you analogies all the way to the bank. but after removing all that fluff we are left with facts: current situation is bait and switch. gamers got 'CRAFTING' for once (as opposed to rng slot machine) and.. they like it.

youll need some very creative PR to spin that in a way that makes players happy. note: i havent even used it and i already can see a massive problem on GGGs hands. real crafting exposed the BS in current itemization, gear progression, expected time expenditure etc. people wont be happy bringing it all back.

even if for Joe Newb it meant he could finally had more than 50 benchcrafted life on his rings and amulet. for players in the middle - not yet 1% but already able to spend some C on items this change is going to hurt the most. and remind yourself what happens to society when you hurt the middle class..

dungeons and dragons is fun because theres a guy at the head of the table who makes the game rules and story.
would you still like to play dungeons and dragons if the game leader makes the rules and story whatever you want them to be?

"

sidtherat wrote:

it isnt really about 'easy mode'. it is about INSANE time investment you need to understand this game. POE's learning curve does not exist. it is a damn teflon wall that noobs have no chance scaling without repeated, very time consuming mistakes they couldnt avoid

game that expects knowledge but does nothing to help you get it - this is the problem. it is very easy game after first 100-200 hours

you know where the problem is? you could learn your 3rd or 4th foreign language in that time. POE time cost is INSANE and it is mostly because this game is grind (that is somewhat fine) AND there is no typical learning loop.

you have to guess this, guess that, fail and learn, fail and learn. other games give you reliable learning opportunities. in POE you have to guess damage types because for some reason they are not color coded NOR there is a battle log to see what happened.

game does not need to be easy to be fair - somehow other games present you with challenges that you can at least UNDERSTAND on the fly. with POE - you have to guess and zerg-rush certain encounters. where exactly game tells you that shaper balls cold-pen? that he does converted damage? where?


'game needing easy mode' is a cop out, cheap one. game is convoluted, artificially complex and EXPECTS you to brute force it with time expenditure that is absolutely nuts. harvest crafting helped somehow with that but also only to certain extent

that is POEs problem - that teflon wall, that forest of artificial skills you have to chop without any tools (no, wikipedia/youtube dont count - 'newbie' guides done by 5y+ veterans are absolutely incomprehensible to real newbies

this is exactly about easy mode.
some poeple don't want death penalty because it takes their hard work away.
some poeple don't want to spend time to farm but still want great gears to show off.
it's becoming impossible to coexist. what PoE stood for back in 2013 isn't what many players want nowadays. they want easier content, no they hate that line, they claim they don't want easier content just want less time consuming content , more rewarding loots, no death penalty.

seems like totally different game to me.
they don't wanna play diablo 3 even tho it is exactly what they want in PoE.
they want PoE to be diablo 3 difficulty. they say that's not it but that is.

Somebody on reddit said it the best. This is how casuals ruin every game:



- There's a game

- This game has a following, players and streamers

- Get interested in the game

- Come to the game

- Don't like the game

- Try to tell those players and streamers who have been enjoying this game for years before you came should instead adopt your vision, because their vision and the vision of the devs, the actual thing that made the game popular and made sure you, personally, have heard about it, is not comfortable for you

- Game turns to shit

- Become a 'refugee' again and ruin some other game

"

yamface wrote:

Somebody on reddit said it the best. This is how casuals ruin every game:



- There's a game

- This game has a following, players and streamers

- Get interested in the game

- Come to the game

- Don't like the game

- Try to tell those players and streamers who have been enjoying this game for years before you came should instead adopt your vision, because their vision and the vision of the devs, the actual thing that made the game popular and made sure you, personally, have heard about it, is not comfortable for you

- Game turns to shit

- Become a 'refugee' again and ruin some other game

yep. put them in a different league is the only option.
we can never coexist with those type.

Does Mathil trade a lot? The difference between trading and solo self found is HUGE!

This league is a godsend for us solo self found players, that doesn't have 8+ hours a day to play.

For average solo self found players,
We may get 4-8 exalts the whole season
1 annulment orb the whole season
4-10 Divine orbs the whole season
200-300 chaos orbs the whole season
300-500 alchemy orbs the whole season
0-15 fossils each the whole season

Potentially one correct base infused item if we are lucky.

This is not enough for solo self found crafting perspective based on the huge RNG.



We tend to hit a brick wall around lvl 90.