dear GGG a message of love that many others seem to support (Mathil Video link below)

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BlackPulsar wrote:

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

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BlackPulsar wrote:

now people are asking that ggg removes the death penalty of 10% experience...

People have been asking for this for years.

and than what? we all play full damage builds with no life and a cast on death+portal setup?
i hope they make it 20% :) i have 3 lvl 100 chars and i play since 2014
these guys want what i did in 9 YEARS done in 2 weeks :))))))))))) i'm so sad :))) unbelievable...

That's not even the issue. But this discussion is off topic in this thread anyway.

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Turtledove wrote:

That's not even the issue. But this discussion is off topic in this thread anyway.

edited out to 6 years bad math :) ofc that's not the issue,there are 1000 issues with that. was joking around
most discussions in this thread are off topic now...

The topic thread didn't really lend itself to much direct discussion, but I thought it a decent enough spring-board for related issues. Happy to cease if that's what's desired.

As for the death penalty: that's another complex issue. The big problem with the death penalty is, unlike virtually every other game with some sort of death penalty, there is no way of reclaiming what was lost. No grave to pray at; no corpse to retrieve. That experience loss is permanent and absolute. This doesn't encourage risk-taking or skill-developing. All it encourages is playing it safe -- so the only time a person will play any way other than safe and boring is immediately after levelling, and even then probably not at the higher levels. It's a genuinely awful system poorly implemented that is purely punitive but yet again, people are used to it and it is baked into this image that POE is somehow hardcore and elite. Anyone calling for it to be removed or even refined is thus an easy target for elitists (who are themselves so rarely actually elite)...it's an ugly situation, but one that really only concerns the boots on the ground. GGG are basically high command thinking not of individual experience but of collective gains and losses.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

The topic thread didn't really lend itself to much direct discussion, but I thought it a decent enough spring-board for related issues. Happy to cease if that's what's desired.

As for the death penalty: that's another complex issue. The big problem with the death penalty is, unlike virtually every other game with some sort of death penalty, there is no way of reclaiming what was lost. No grave to pray at; no corpse to retrieve. That experience loss is permanent and absolute. This doesn't encourage risk-taking or skill-developing. All it encourages is playing it safe -- so the only time a person will play any way other than safe and boring is immediately after levelling, and even then probably not at the higher levels. It's a genuinely awful system poorly implemented that is purely punitive but yet again, people are used to it and it is baked into this image that POE is somehow hardcore and elite. Anyone calling for it to be removed or even refined is thus an easy target for elitists (who are themselves so rarely actually elite)...it's an ugly situation, but one that really only concerns the boots on the ground. GGG are basically high command thinking not of individual experience but of collective gains and losses.

+1 on this.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

The topic thread didn't really lend itself to much direct discussion, but I thought it a decent enough spring-board for related issues. Happy to cease if that's what's desired.

As for the death penalty: that's another complex issue. The big problem with the death penalty is, unlike virtually every other game with some sort of death penalty, there is no way of reclaiming what was lost. No grave to pray at; no corpse to retrieve. That experience loss is permanent and absolute. This doesn't encourage risk-taking or skill-developing. All it encourages is playing it safe -- so the only time a person will play any way other than safe and boring is immediately after levelling, and even then probably not at the higher levels. It's a genuinely awful system poorly implemented that is purely punitive but yet again, people are used to it and it is baked into this image that POE is somehow hardcore and elite. Anyone calling for it to be removed or even refined is thus an easy target for elitists (who are themselves so rarely actually elite)...it's an ugly situation, but one that really only concerns the boots on the ground. GGG are basically high command thinking not of individual experience but of collective gains and losses.

That's all correct. I take it all back, don't cease.

On top of what you say, GGG is in love with the level 100 chase goal and so the death penalty wouldn't be changed for that reason alone. I'll guess.

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Mortyx wrote:

After that they started pushing more and more towards the "casual crowd", which led to the game getting faster, more mobs, faster, more mobs, oneshots, faster, loot explosion, faster. You get the point.

They murdered the "role playing" aspect for the sake of plain mindless colorful action (the same mistake d3 did), which is sad with how many core ideas they did right in PoE (crafting currency, skill gems, support gems, passive tree).
Unfortunately all those cool core ideas are wasted when they balance the game around the "efficient" and not around the "fun".

Gonna disagree with you right there. Sidtherat is right in that the game started amping up speed meta with the removal of reflect. Most of the hardcore crowd wanted the removal of reflect, not the casuals. This is because in those days it was usually only the "elite" that had the means or the knowledge to make builds that would get them oneshot on reflect rares. If you remember I_NO, she was one of the most "elite" players at the time and even she was complaining about reflect.

The speed meta was ultimately asked for by the "elite". I will venture to say because they only saw the potential currency gains and not the fact that some speed bumps were necessary to control the pacing of the game.

Who do you think complained the most when mjolnir/CoC-discharge was nerfed with the internal CD's? The "elite" or the casuals who were literally priced out of running those builds (Voll's Devotion being a multi ex unique in those days)?

Casuals didn't "gunk" up this game. If anything, casuals are the reason why some of the QoL exists as it does today because GGG thought it prudent to implement them to sway new players. It was mostly the "elite" who only wanted less impediments to gaining currency so they could afford to make silly builds. Which is funny that Harvest can circumvent that, but I think people are still way too attached to currency and the "game economy" to see why Harvest is much better.

Reflect was dealt with by enough evasion, lgoh, and vp, it wasn't nearly a big of a deal as you think. The only difference was you couldn't do overkill levels of damage but that never mattered.. because it's overkill damage.

The real culprit imo that started spinning the game in the wrong direction was the introduction to ascendencies.

for the topic and discussion in this thread,this the last i have to sai...

no matter the game changes there will always be inequality between the players who invest more time and knowledge and the ones who don't.
the only way any casual player would feel better is if there was a cap to how good a character can be made.
adding deterministic crafting to the game would make the players who invest more time and knowledge become very very VERY stong and the casual player would still feel cheated.
people demanded harvest stais because they can now do sirus A8 and said they are entitled to do that... most of the complaints coming from harvest are of inequality and that harvest is finaly making things equal between the casual and the invested player.
casual players will consider the items they managed to make this league bad compared to what the older players will do with harvest crafting next league and a new end game will be made for those who will not find a chalenge anymore and than a new complaint will come from the casual player that he can't reach that level of end game.
this is what i think the future would bring with harvest in the game...
a loop back to where we are now


i always hoped they add a crazy end game boss to the game,one that 99% of players cant even reach not even me :) i just want him to exist in the game in case one day i make soemthign strong enough to kill him... but ggg will never do that because the casual player thinks it is his right to kill that boss and that it's unfair that it takes so much to kill him...
you must understand how unfair this is for the more invested player,not alowing him to have a challenge that he can feel proud of achieving.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

The topic thread didn't really lend itself to much direct discussion, but I thought it a decent enough spring-board for related issues. Happy to cease if that's what's desired.

As for the death penalty: that's another complex issue. The big problem with the death penalty is, unlike virtually every other game with some sort of death penalty, there is no way of reclaiming what was lost. No grave to pray at; no corpse to retrieve. That experience loss is permanent and absolute. This doesn't encourage risk-taking or skill-developing. All it encourages is playing it safe -- so the only time a person will play any way other than safe and boring is immediately after levelling, and even then probably not at the higher levels. It's a genuinely awful system poorly implemented that is purely punitive but yet again, people are used to it and it is baked into this image that POE is somehow hardcore and elite. Anyone calling for it to be removed or even refined is thus an easy target for elitists (who are themselves so rarely actually elite)...it's an ugly situation, but one that really only concerns the boots on the ground. GGG are basically high command thinking not of individual experience but of collective gains and losses.

diablo 2 had this and it was fun :) sometimes it was hard as hell getting my corpse back and i lost even more xp in the process :) also the corpse gave just part of the xp back not all of it and i think we lost gold in the process if we had it on us but i can't remember exactly.

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Tsokushin wrote:

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Mortyx wrote:

After that they started pushing more and more towards the "casual crowd", which led to the game getting faster, more mobs, faster, more mobs, oneshots, faster, loot explosion, faster. You get the point.

They murdered the "role playing" aspect for the sake of plain mindless colorful action (the same mistake d3 did), which is sad with how many core ideas they did right in PoE (crafting currency, skill gems, support gems, passive tree).
Unfortunately all those cool core ideas are wasted when they balance the game around the "efficient" and not around the "fun".

Gonna disagree with you right there. Sidtherat is right in that the game started amping up speed meta with the removal of reflect. Most of the hardcore crowd wanted the removal of reflect, not the casuals. This is because in those days it was usually only the "elite" that had the means or the knowledge to make builds that would get them oneshot on reflect rares. If you remember I_NO, she was one of the most "elite" players at the time and even she was complaining about reflect.

The speed meta was ultimately asked for by the "elite". I will venture to say because they only saw the potential currency gains and not the fact that some speed bumps were necessary to control the pacing of the game.

Who do you think complained the most when mjolnir/CoC-discharge was nerfed with the internal CD's? The "elite" or the casuals who were literally priced out of running those builds (Voll's Devotion being a multi ex unique in those days)?

Casuals didn't "gunk" up this game. If anything, casuals are the reason why some of the QoL exists as it does today because GGG thought it prudent to implement them to sway new players. It was mostly the "elite" who only wanted less impediments to gaining currency so they could afford to make silly builds. Which is funny that Harvest can circumvent that, but I think people are still way too attached to currency and the "game economy" to see why Harvest is much better.

Oh yeah, don't take me wrong, what i mean by "casuals" is the majority of people, regardless if they like the genre or not or if they are "good players" or "bad players". From what i observe (might be wrong), fast mindless and bright gameplay is what appeases the majority of "gamers" nowadays.