dear GGG a message of love that many others seem to support (Mathil Video link below)

i see alot of new players who abuse your good customer service and feedback,i'm sad to see some old players do it aswell.
please do not give in to these demands,a lot of these newcomers are entitled,lazy or just kids who don't really get the meaning of an arpg game and want to speedrun through everything than move on to the next game(fortnite) :))
now that you are above all arpgs,there will be other companies who would bring you down so please trust only in the game forum threads not the reddit threads or other,the comments that should have any meaning are the ones from profiles that show they played the game for a while.
Mathil also has a video out talking about these entitled .... i am happy to see there are other more popular people share this opinion on things related to the player base.
GGG ALWAYS stick to your guns to what you think the game should be,we are having a blast with whatever you think is good,only take feedback that you think is usefull and please never take any insult to heart,game has grown in popularity and most of the negative feedback might be from kids who have no idea what they are playing and just try the game because it's free than curse on forums because that's what they do with all games...
people who played an arpg or want to play one know what they're getting into.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpc6iYGaHJc

I like Mathil's video. Thanks for sharing.

"

Turtledove wrote:

I like Mathil's video. Thanks for sharing.

it took a rock of my chest seeing someone as popular as mathil share the same opinion on things.
nice to keep seeing you turtledove :) hope we meet in a rota next league

Its good that it is Mathil rather then someone like Empyrian saying this.

At least with Mathil you see someone who works with the type of budget a newer player would have (no mirror tier 1% stuff people complain about all the time).

His argument that he didn't see much complaining about crafting before harvest, therefore the current system is fine is complete bs. Most people never got the opportunity to attempt to craft their own gear due to how rare exalts are. This is the first time crafting has been accessible to the majority of the playerbase

"

magicdownunder wrote:

Its good that it is Mathil rather then someone like Empyrian saying this.

At least with Mathil you see someone who works with the type of budget a newer player would have (no mirror tier 1% stuff people complain about all the time).

i felt the same as mathil when i saw these demands from players,it really was disheartening,i just didn't know how to express the feeling,i always thaught poe players are smart or mostly adults.
what are these demands? what do these people think they are entitled to?
they are abusing the fact that GGG actually pays attention to what the players say.
You know the guys in global chat asking if they can have all your stuff if you quit the league? or just beg all the time for stuff? i think these are those people.
shameless also called sociopaths that would just lie to oblivion to get what they want even if it ruins things for everyone.

GGG dug themselves an ENORMOUS hole. what they effectively did was a giant bait and switch. i wonder if they were aware of the aftermath of that

regardless of anything (ease of gearing, short progression etc) giving players something that they like just to abruptly take it away.. that wont fly well with the 99%

sure, the 1% like mathil and his fellow worker-gamers wont see a difference: they play A LOT and know WHAT to play (you wont see mathil playing bad builds, you wont see empy playing non-top builds.). avoiding stupid builds makes gearing much eaiser. for them gear being more expensive or harder to get - means nothing as they already minimized the impact gear progression has on them

for the Joe Noob, joined mar 2020, taking away harvest crafting (the basic one, im not talking about high-level meta BS like target-crafting 3notable large clusters or 8link minion helmets) is like a kick in the balls

you guys - the vets, experienced players - have to understand that you are like MINISCULE % of total playerbase. the remaining 99% find current game already too difficult, too time consuming and too convoluted. and that is WITH harvest crafting.

imagine what is going to happen to Joe Noob without it.

you might look them down, belittle them and call them names. but.. it is them who pay GGG's bills. not you.

sure, there is a l2p issue (like: do not play bad builds, do not try to swim upstream, do not be snowflake, know how to gear in general etc etc). l2p issues are good and should stay. problem is that most of the l2p effort you need to do is mainly 'what to avoid and why'. it takes 100s of hours to accumulate that knowledge - because game ARTIFICIALLY limits your ways of learning.

sure, after that initial investment you can make a lvl 90 char in 20-30 hours EASY, know what to avoid, understand various game inconsistencies, know what bosses do what (because game does absolutely crap job at convening that information to you)..



on the side note: mathil is COMPLETELY detached from reality, he makes a bif fuss out of explody chest and tells us how easy it is. for WHO is it easy? full-time worker-gamers?

GGG has to quickly make up their mind who they are targeting: regular, normal gamer or 8hr+/day streamers. right now they try to please both, unsuccessfully.

streamers got 'too easy game', casuals still have the convoluted mess of no-learning-curve (and now they will get their have a passable gear in all slots crafting).

wonder how that is going to end

"

BlackPulsar wrote:

"

magicdownunder wrote:

Its good that it is Mathil rather then someone like Empyrian saying this.

At least with Mathil you see someone who works with the type of budget a newer player would have (no mirror tier 1% stuff people complain about all the time).

i felt the same as mathil when i saw these demands from players,it really was disheartening,i just didn't know how to express the feeling,i always thaught poe players are smart or mostly adults.
what are these demands? what do these people think they are entitled to?
they are abusing the fact that GGG actually pays attention to what the players say.
You know the guys in global chat asking if they can have all your stuff if you quit the league? or just beg all the time for stuff? i think these are those people.
shameless also called sociopaths that would just lie to oblivion to get what they want even if it ruins things for everyone.

this is Chris Wilson's fault tho. his lack of vison, lack of leadership caused this mess.

GGG wanted to break the game and they did. they also broke many players. now their demand is much higher. entitlement is off the roof.

i honestly think isolation is the only way at this point. they need to have another tier of league to satisfy those type of players.

"

sidtherat wrote:

GGG dug themselves an ENORMOUS hole. what they effectively did was a giant bait and switch. i wonder if they were aware of the aftermath of that

regardless of anything (ease of gearing, short progression etc) giving players something that they like just to abruptly take it away.. that wont fly well with the 99%

sure, the 1% like mathil and his fellow worker-gamers wont see a difference: they play A LOT and know WHAT to play (you wont see mathil playing bad builds, you wont see empy playing non-top builds.). avoiding stupid builds makes gearing much eaiser. for them gear being more expensive or harder to get - means nothing as they already minimized the impact gear progression has on them

for the Joe Noob, joined mar 2020, taking away harvest crafting (the basic one, im not talking about high-level meta BS like target-crafting 3notable large clusters or 8link minion helmets) is like a kick in the balls

you guys - the vets, experienced players - have to understand that you are like MINISCULE % of total playerbase. the remaining 99% find current game already too difficult, too time consuming and too convoluted. and that is WITH harvest crafting.

imagine what is going to happen to Joe Noob without it.

you might look them down, belittle them and call them names. but.. it is them who pay GGG's bills. not you.

sure, there is a l2p issue (like: do not play bad builds, do not try to swim upstream, do not be snowflake, know how to gear in general etc etc). l2p issues are good and should stay. problem is that most of the l2p effort you need to do is mainly 'what to avoid and why'. it takes 100s of hours to accumulate that knowledge - because game ARTIFICIALLY limits your ways of learning.

sure, after that initial investment you can make a lvl 90 char in 20-30 hours EASY, know what to avoid, understand various game inconsistencies, know what bosses do what (because game does absolutely crap job at convening that information to you)..



on the side note: mathil is COMPLETELY detached from reality, he makes a bif fuss out of explody chest and tells us how easy it is. for WHO is it easy? full-time worker-gamers?

GGG has to quickly make up their mind who they are targeting: regular, normal gamer or 8hr+/day streamers. right now they try to please both, unsuccessfully.

streamers got 'too easy game', casuals still have the convoluted mess of no-learning-curve (and now they will get their have a passable gear in all slots crafting).

wonder how that is going to end

we just cannot coexist. separation is the only way.
there are HC SC SSFHC SSFSC but a lot of players want something even easier than those league right. having a league with lower difficulty would solve this kind of issue .
there is nothing wrong with having easy mode. PoE is too complex and should offer easy mode.

So I took it upon myself to watch that video because I thought, I already know what he's going to say, but let's actually break down everything he says of importance and explain why he is completly wrong (almost, he does says one thing right).

First he starts by going about what type of player he represents. Let's put this here in a way that leaves no doubts. He represents the top 1% of the players in this game. Mathil,you do NOT represent the player base of the game in case you're interested knowing. The community is represented by the average, not by the top. What the top can do and what the average can do are so far apart that if you look down from your holy throne, you can't see us down here even though we are by far the bigger part of the community.

Then he says that the normal crafting is a glorified gambling system (which is correct) but it doesn't makes sense to change it... On top of that he says that he sees no problem with normal crafting. Of course, for someone who represents the top 1% of the player base that can get douzens of exalts in a day he doesn't sees a problem. Mathil, stop looking at yourself as if you are an example. What about the people who make 10 to 14 chaos a days? That's the average player, he plays a couple hours a day and at best he can make 5 to 7 chaos an hour. That is the reality of the situation. Of course you don't see a problem, try limiting yourself to play 2 hours a day and not using more than 15 chaos a day (of course you can save for several days to do it. Also while you are at it, use the worst skill that exists in PoE because the play skill of you and the average player is miles apart so that should give you at least an inkling of what the average player suffers in grinding. Perhaps then you'll understand why normal crafting is a problem.

Next he goes on to say that harvest is an item editor. Mathil my boy. Harvest is an item editor for you and at best the top 20% of the player base. For everyone else, harvest isn't even enough. I'm probably around the top 40% of the player base and I can't do anything with harvest, not for the lack of trying, not for the lack of knowledge. It just requires too much time investment for someone average, even for someone a little above the average like me.

Next he goes on to say that this league breaks the game just like Chris said it would. Breaks it where? At the very top of the tree where it had been broken since PoE has existed? Let's not mince words here, the top players have ALWAYS "broken" the game. This gave that chance to another top 10% of the player base, the other 80% is still going nowhere. On top of that, what exactly is breaking the game? Does a single player game really need to have a careful balancing? There are plenty of game that don't mind giving the player, no matter what skill level he has, the opportunity to be absurdly powerful. That won't break the game because it's not a competitive game in the first place. Just look at games like Risk of Rain 2 that recently came out. You can get so ridiculously overpowered that it's not even a joke. Does it breaks the game? No, if anything, trying to get there and playing at that field when you get there is incredibly fun! What isn't fun however is that only a very small part of the player base gets to do that and assume it's right that only they are allowed to have fun!

Next he goes to say that no content in the game needs higher than 50% of an items potential. Again, you in top 10% might be right, but again, we mere mortals representing the average player of the community need 70% to 80% of all item's potential to do most content and do notice how I said MOST. It is important because things like Sirius? Yeah, that is something that even with 100% item potential an average player would still struggle unless they have capped block and spell block. On top of that, an average player struggles to even get 50% of an item potential and only gets it through trading at the ridiculous prices asked by the market due to flippers. Have you even realised that 3 or 4 years ago you could buy starting mapping gear for less than 30 chaos but now you need more than 100? Also have you noticed that the average player doesn't makes currency any faster than he did 3 or 4 years ago? Well of course you haven't, you can even see us down here from your holy throne up there!

Next he goes on to say that the only problem is knowledge. It isn't skill, it isn't time, it isn't anything else. It's knowledge. No, it absolutly isn't! Why do you think the average player makes 15c a day? Let me explain it to you. The average player works and unlike you, he doesn't has the good fortune of being a streamer whose job is entertaining an audience while playing games the whole day. Thus they have a couple hours to play. Add to that the fact that they cannot map efficiently for several reasons. Maybe they stop for a minute to take a phone call, maybe they stop to check loot or to haul back some loot. Maybe they stop to scratch their butt or maybe their wife shows up and needs to talk for a second. Add to that the fact that average players don't even have good flask management because most people have a real limitation as to how many keys they are able to use at the same time or even press without looking at the keyboard. Then add to that the fact that another major thing that separates top players from average players is their reflexes which for the average player should be well above 1 second. Now the average player is taking 10 to 20 minutes per map. Oh I did forget, add to it that they are using trash gear because that's all they could get their hands on with their level of skill and with the time they have to play so it takes longer to kill things. So no, the major problem here is time, skill and gear. There may be some lack of knowledge up to a certain point, but it's not impeditive from knowing how to craft or in a normal league, knowing what to buy because normal crafting is not about knowledge, it's about luck (well knowledge is necessary too but not a whole lot really).

Next he says that he can get a BiS item for belt, boots and chest in hours. Have you considered that the average player can't get even 1 of those in an entire league's duration? I'm sure you think that's not possible but it is. The craft is still to some degree RNG with harvest. The targeting helps but you need to also luck out in having only things that you can remove if they are not a thing you want and you also need to land high rolls as opposed to, rolling 10 life when you do the harvest crafting and so on. An average player, simply based on the time he takes per map and the time he has available to play, struggles to even make a 30% all res and 80+ life belt. That's how hard it is for the average player and you trying to trivialise it by saying you can do whatever you want easily doesn't changes the fact that it isn't a reality for 80% of the player base even with harvest.

The he goes and says that targeted crafting is too easy and doesn't understands why people want it. How can you not understand it? In what world is it hard to understand that people want to be able to do most content that the game has to offer? How can you not understand that people want to have the gear necessary to make the build work? How can you not understand that people, just like you, want to have fun. Because you have playing PoE. Whether it's harvest or not. You always get your broken items, you always obliterate everything easily and you have fun doing so and having no challenge. If it wasn't so, you'd be playing with the owrst possible skills in the game but what happens anytime a streamer or a top player grabs a skill that isn't instantly destroying everything in the screen? Here's what you say. "It doesn't feels very good to play." So why wouldn't others be allowed to also have fun the way you do just because you are more skill and have more time? Does that somehow make you a better human being, more deserving of a fun time than others?

Next he goes about how people don't get excited for loot right now. Say what Mathil? Since when has this been a now problem? Have you ever been excited for loot? Cause I'm 100% sure your loot filter in EVERY league is so strict it barely shows anything at all. In fact that goes for most players, even for me. Do you think I care about looking for yellows and identiofying it? What for? Why would I waste time identifying trash? Look in PoE has never been exciting at all and every top player says the same, don't pick up low value, don't pick up yellows unless you are badly needing a weapon upgrade. Because time wasted on trash is time lost sping the RNG roulette one more time. So I don't see your point in this!

The he says like he feels he doesn't have a place in this game anymore when he reads the comments about harvest. Mathil, stop being dramatic here. You are one of the top players. Nothing that happens to the game ever affects you and the community certainly doesn't affects your enjoyment of the game either. That is just you throwing a tantrum because you think there is a chance that GGG might cave in and put some sort of "broken" harvest just to shut up the players. For starters, you know that won't happen. If there is anything GGG has always shown is that they do not listen to their players, if they did this game would be a whole lot better and instead of having a 40% drop in players in the first week of a league, you'd probably have less than that after 1 month.

Last he asks us why can't we enjoy things while they last instead of wanting to force them to last forever. Because what we have right now isn't even good enough. It's at best a step in the right direction and it's something that has been requested for many years. The difference now is that many of the nay sayers that drink all the words that a streamer says just cause he is a top player have started to open their eyes. Maybe the top players were wrong all along. Maybe these things they call would break the game actually make the game more fun after all.

At the end of the day Mathil, you're just another elitist top player and like all others, the one thing you are afraid is that more people can suddendly start coming close to being as good as you because they can get the gear they need in order to make things work. They may never be as good as you are skill wise, but they can have as much fun as you doing all content. To you and the rest of the top players this seems unfair. It is unfair that in a game, everyone gets to have fun. No, you believe that only a very select few have the rights to that and the rest can only ever hope to be is wage slaves to the game trying to get somehwere. In other words, all you and the other top players want is to wallow in a sense of superiority and I find it revolting that GGG hasn't decided to put an end to that yet!