Labyrinth is still not fun. It's horrible content

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BlackPulsar wrote:

exactly as Xavathos says
you want an enchant?,you can play some other part of the game and make currency to buy the item with the enchant you want frome someone willing to do the lab.

Indeed. And in the case of SSF, if you want the enchant but you don't want to do the lab for it, then you need to choose which one is more important to you.

That's what I meant with subjective required content. It's only true if you set your expectations to make it so.

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Xavathos wrote:

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BlackPulsar wrote:

exactly as Xavathos says
you want an enchant?,you can play some other part of the game and make currency to buy the item with the enchant you want frome someone willing to do the lab.

Indeed. And in the case of SSF, if you want the enchant but you don't want to do the lab for it, then you need to choose which one is more important to you.

That's what I meant with subjective required content. It's only true if you set your expectations to make it so.

if ggg would cater to some player needs, the game would be endless ledge and it would play itself :)

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Turtledove wrote:

You don't come into these threads to discuss issues.

Tbh, I dont think those issues regarding lab can be discussed because its essentially an emotional reaction - on both sides.

There are no real facts or anything close to it.
Its just "I like this" or "I dont like this", thats pretty much it and this isnt ground for a debate to be had.

Both sides will try to make up fact or arguments to support their cause, ofc thats to be expected, but both sides also fail to realize this isnt about facts but feelings/emotions.
You cant debate that, its pointless and thats why this "debate" is still dragging on years after the labs introduction and will most likely never come to an end.

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Xavathos wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Your deep delve point is true but is NOT required content!

Sorry, but this argument has been beaten to death, let it rest.

Nothing in the game is required content. It's all about how far you want to get in the game and what you want to gain. That's super subjective and bound to vary wildly from player to player.

If I play a build that requires a Disfavour, does that make Uber Atziri required content?

It's all about what you want to achieve in the game. There are things you need to do for everything the game has to offer and if you want those rewards, then you have to beat the challenge. This is the basic concept of a game and we do this little dance every 3 months with temp leagues, so it surprises me that you still haven't grasped it.

You can like it, dislike it, play it, not play it, only play parts of it, whatever you want, it's your choice. Just as long as you stay within the boundaries set by the developers and reasonable, personal expectations.

While technically true , its not really true in spirit for many things. This is functionally no different than the 6l is a luxury argument.

It was technically always true that you did not need a 6l or even a 5l to finish the game.
but people did not feel like they completed a build until they had that 6l. This is why GGG is on record as deliberately saying they have been making 6ls easier to get every league.

Some things for all intents and purposes are not actually optional. Enchants are.. sure. But ascendancies I feel do not fall into that camp. I doubt anyone with a firm grasp of what ascendancies do would feel happy not having all 8 points.


Which means they will slam their heads against the wall that is the lab to complete that aspect.. even if the experience is awful for them.

And again it is *Technically* optional.

Besides should we really be excusing the labs failings just because it is optional? Is it really pointless to criticize an aspect of the game that is not universally liked?

The first time I did Lab, the first Lab was when I got my character to lvl 70 or so, because I just couldn`t do the Lab. I remember spending like 2 days dying I don`t know how many times maybe 20-30+ or so.. The quitting until i leveled my char to lvl 70 or so... So imagine the pain...

And all of that because there is no accurate explanations on how the game mechanics truly work, or because there were no death logs and I couldnt have a slightest idea in what way I should build my character to manage all the traps and bosses in the Lab...

The content issin`t the problem, the problem is lack of explanation on what really matter in order to finish it without dying.

Well technically the mechanics of the lab are supposed to be explained by the various trials in the story.

The problem is that people tend to learn by repetition so only seeing an example of a trap a handful of times is not going stay fresh in their mind when the vast majority of the game has nothing like said traps.

Well technically the mechanics of the lab are supposed to be explained by the various trials in the story.

The problem is that people tend to learn by repetition so only seeing an example of a trap a handful of times is not going stay fresh in their mind when the vast majority of the game has nothing like said traps.

See, it is possible for there to be sincere discussion where people share their thoughts and ideas while still appreciating the thoughts and ideas of others even if they do not exactly align. THANK YOU!!!

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

Well technically the mechanics of the lab are supposed to be explained by the various trials in the story.

The problem is that people tend to learn by repetition so only seeing an example of a trap a handful of times is not going stay fresh in their mind when the vast majority of the game has nothing like said traps.

The traps in the "tutorial" segments in the various act zones are also designed differently, they give more openings to avoid damage and teach approaches that don't really work in the actual lab where it's more about skipping large amounts of space and touching the damage as little as possible and being built to just take the damage rather than carefully avoiding it outright.

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

Well technically the mechanics of the lab are supposed to be explained by the various trials in the story.

The problem is that people tend to learn by repetition so only seeing an example of a trap a handful of times is not going stay fresh in their mind when the vast majority of the game has nothing like said traps.

The traps in the "tutorial" segments in the various act zones are also designed differently, they give more openings to avoid damage and teach approaches that don't really work in the actual lab where it's more about skipping large amounts of space and touching the damage as little as possible and being built to just take the damage rather than carefully avoiding it outright.

Yes, the trials in the acts can be almost completely ignored. Meaning the basic technique of just running through them quickly with no forethought or planning or second glance seems to work pretty well. The trials in the maps are a totally different thing though. Much more boring and irritating but they are good practice for learning the not fun mechanic.