Labyrinth is still not fun. It's horrible content

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

Non-tanky (to allow this weirdly arbitrary restriction) namelock would probably do just fine because getting close to Sirus is safer than not. The difference here would be because of different playstyles and not because one playstyle would do poorly.

wut ?
Because any melee character needs to be "absurdly tanky" ?
What is this nonsense ?

Yeah, I did not said "non-tanky", I said not "absurdly tanky", for a reason.

Sirus is worse when playing on a melee characters because he tps everywhere like a f. retard, making the whole thing tedious and rippy AF unless you can freely tank all of it ( or most of it ).


Killing it with something that does not need to aim and can just watch its life decrease is a completely different experience during the last phase.
I genuinely thouhgt that this was obvious enough not to need to mention it at all ...

Tanky and non-tanky characters are going to play that fight the same, so the distinction is meaningless.

And the best way to avoid Sirus' attacks is to get close to him at all times so that you can stay in his blind angles, thus why I don't think Melee is at such a huge disadvantage for this fight.

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Fruz wrote:

Care to show some of those builds who can "crush endgame content" (including most bosses, delve respectfully apart from some exception like animate weapon maybe), but yet cannot run uber lab ?

Pretty much any build that does not have high physical mitigation / life regen / movement speed in the 200s of % will not run lab comfortably.


Make no mistake there is a reason why dedicated lab runners exist. It is specifically because the lab requires a specific set of qualities in a character to run efficiently.

also there are plenty of builds that can crush maps but not do well in delve. Like lab, delve also demands a specific set of qualities ( especially corpse destruction) I can take one summoner to maybe 400 depth and another to 1200 with the only difference that one shatters all the monsters and the other does not.

And that is the only difference both kill sirus 8.

"

Why does it "directly conflicts with an arpg power fantasy" ?
Because you decided so ?

And who says there is not? Because you decided so? Why are you so needlessly combative in every topic i try to engage you in?

The whole point of an arpg is to crush monsters and get loot. It is a logical extrapolation that being able to do the first faster leads to the second being faster.

So a boss that drops less if your build is stronger does technically confict the base premise of an arpg.

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And actually there have been mechanics to punish players with too much dps from the beginning of the game, mechanics do not make any sense in the current iteration of the game anymore because GGG isn't capable of dealing with it (yes, I'm talking about reflect and the old lightning thorns, they existed in the game way before the lab).

There is a difference between a mob displaying a mechanic which damages the player more if they clear too fast and a mechanic in which that mob drops less if said players kills it too fast. only one of those deals with a reward.

"

The rest is completely irrelevant to what I said, some of it is also of bad faith in my opinion so I won't mention any of it, sorry.
I probably should not have answered that second part to begin with, I was simply points some fallacious claims out.

are you serious?

We're letting Fruz run the discussion off on tangents. He just likes to troll the Labyrinth threads and has been doing so for years. The fact remains that Labyrinth is not fun content for many people. Fruz likes the lab content and obviously feels superior to everyone that doesn't like the trap gauntlet content.

The regular PoE game play, kill monsters get loot game play is fun for everyone here. For many of us though when we have to focus on traps instead of monsters the game play becomes boring and irritating.

GGG has made a lot of changes reducing the trap gauntlet game play. It is way less than half of what it used to be per character. It improved the game enough to at least get me to return to PoE after quitting for close to a year. The traps in the first two labs has been significantly reduced. The trials have been reduced even more. It used to be 6 trials for each character for each lab, IIRC. That has been reduced plus the trials only need be done once per league now. This makes it especially reduced on Standard. So the silly assertions of some people that GGG will never change the lab are already proven wrong. Although people still keep saying that kind of thing in these threads and still keep coming here to troll.

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

Tanky and non-tanky characters are going to play that fight the same, so the distinction is meaningless.

And the best way to avoid Sirus' attacks is to get close to him at all times so that you can stay in his blind angles, thus why I don't think Melee is at such a huge disadvantage for this fight.

No they won't ....

The strongest builds BY VERY FAR against Sirus are the one that can keep moving while dpsing.
Melee do simply NOT do that (Unless maybe stuff like bleed earthquake ).
And getting close to melee range during the last phase is partly (mostly) time spent not damaging him.

If you want to keep throwing such absurdities, do it without me please.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Care to show some of those builds who can "crush endgame content" (including most bosses, delve respectfully apart from some exception like animate weapon maybe), but yet cannot run uber lab ?

Pretty much any build that does not have high physical mitigation / life regen / movement speed in the 200s of % will not run lab comfortably.

Utter nonsense.
If you are mechanically bad enough, maybe you will not run the lab comfortably with those characters.
That does not mean that the problem is with the build.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

Make no mistake there is a reason why dedicated lab runners exist. It is specifically because the lab requires a specific set of qualities in a character to run efficiently.

( And of course, we're circling back to the same nonsense over and over again )

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Fruz wrote:

like everywhere else in the game lulz, good one.

The rest confirms exactly what I've been saying here.

The difference is that is some content like delve, you literally cannot progress without some specific mechanics ( = corpse cleaning up, for example ), the lab has nothing like this.
But let's forget a little bit about delve, because Turtle is going to come again with "BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED CONTENT !!!!!"

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

And who says there is not? Because you decided so? Why are you so needlessly combative in every topic i try to engage you in?

Because I'm not throwing nonsensical arguments that I just pulled out of some magic hat ?
You are just trying to attack the fact that I pointed out some falacies you threw.
I know, it might not feel very good, so maybe you should stop doing this to begin with ?

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

There is a difference between a mob displaying a mechanic which damages the player more if they clear too fast and a mechanic in which that mob drops less if said players kills it too fast. only one of those deals with a reward.

not relevant.

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Turtledove wrote:

[...]

The irony ...
Now I remember why I added you to my "troll blacklist" back then.


Anyway, have fun going circlejerking all over again with nonsensical arguments so that you can pat yourself on the back about how much you're victim of the "horrible labyrinth" LOL
That last post of yours is such a perfect illustration of it.

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No they won't ....

The strongest builds BY VERY FAR against Sirus are the one that can keep moving while dpsing.
Melee do simply NOT do that (Unless maybe stuff like bleed earthquake ).
And getting close to melee range during the last phase is partly (mostly) time spent not damaging him.

If you want to keep throwing such absurdities, do it without me please.

I meant tanky and non-tanky *melee* characters (pardon me for expecting people to understand what I talk about even when I forget an adjective), the tanky one is still going to attempt to avoid damage the same as the non-tanky one, thus why I think the arbitrary restriction you put to declare what kind of Melee characters you have in your comparison is meaningless.

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

[...]

The irony ...
Now I remember why I added you to my "troll blacklist" back then.


Anyway, have fun going circlejerking all over again with nonsensical arguments so that you can pat yourself on the back about how much you're victim of the "horrible labyrinth" LOL
That last post of yours is such a perfect illustration of it.

Look at this last post of yours as an example. You don't come into these threads to discuss issues. You come into these threads to tell people things like.

to VolcanoElixir

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Fruz wrote:

If you want to keep throwing such absurdities, do it without me please.

to Saltychipmunk

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Fruz wrote:

You are just trying to attack the fact that I pointed out some falacies you threw.
I know, it might not feel very good, so maybe you should stop doing this to begin with ?

It's just like before you said you would leave me alone you told this lie

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Fruz wrote:

you been pretty much predicting every league that GGG was going to change/rework the lab ?
How has that been working out lol ?

What a stupid lie. I never predicted that. You took a joke completely out of context and use it to make up a lie to troll in the thread. I don't even remember any of the frequent posters in these Labyrinth threads predicting that. When other people tell you that you're taking a joke out of context, I tell you it was a joke and deny ever predicting such a thing, you just double down on your lie. When I say produce a link to me saying anything like that you say you can't be bothered. You were probably just trolling then just like you are trolling us now.

how easy do you want you build changing superpower and enchant again?

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Turtledove wrote:

Your deep delve point is true but is NOT required content!

Sorry, but this argument has been beaten to death, let it rest.

Nothing in the game is required content. It's all about how far you want to get in the game and what you want to gain. That's super subjective and bound to vary wildly from player to player.

If I play a build that requires a Disfavour, does that make Uber Atziri required content?

It's all about what you want to achieve in the game. There are things you need to do for everything the game has to offer and if you want those rewards, then you have to beat the challenge. This is the basic concept of a game and we do this little dance every 3 months with temp leagues, so it surprises me that you still haven't grasped it.

You can like it, dislike it, play it, not play it, only play parts of it, whatever you want, it's your choice. Just as long as you stay within the boundaries set by the developers and reasonable, personal expectations.

exactly as Xavathos says
you want an enchant?,you can play some other part of the game and make currency to buy the item with the enchant you want frome someone willing to do the lab.