Labyrinth is still not fun. It's horrible content

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Obright wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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I don't mean to diminish your experiences, but have you considered whether you might be burning yourself out? If I were tasked with ascending someone else's toons in addition to my own, and if I had to spend an entire day ascending, I would hate doing labs a lot more than I do. :p

Here is my advice, should you care to have it:

Don't try to do all labs in one day! Although the concept of finishing them quickly is attractive, you will burn out. Take your time, and take breaks or you will go insane. Trying to rush through them will get you taken out on a stretcher, and just lengthen your torment.

My stomach turns inside out whenever I have to ascend, and always has (even though it is more manageable now), but I manage it by limiting my time in the labyrinth.

Also, as someone else has said, you can wait to ascend after you've leveled. The trap damage scales with you, so you'll have a relatively similar experience with traps at any level, but for bosses and regular enemies it's less nerve-wracking to level first.

I hope you can find peace within the lab!

:-)

I rarely die and so usually I can stomach it. It just adds insult to injury when I get a crash in labyrinth. Yes, I was burned out. The problem is that it is not at all fun for me. So I put it off. If I'm in the mood to do not fun stuff then I'd rather go get some chores done. Then I want to ascend before the the final big battle against Kitava.

Greetings,

I rarely die to the lab. But the new batch of labs were horrible. I simply gave up after multiple attempts and even making a character for lab purpose only for my challenge.

I now relegated the new labs to the same level of bullcrap than the one-shot deaths coming form the horse arse and hoping GGG in POE 2.0 will go away fromt hat kind of design mentality.

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Xavathos wrote:

I must say that I agree with Salty and others when they say that there are builds that have an extremely hard time in the Lab, despite being probably among the strongest outside of it. Usually these builds revolve around some kind of ES pool and little to no armour as a result.

I've played these builds myself and I'm usually rather comfortable in the Lab, as I've done it many many times and don't dislike it, but when I go through it on these kinds of builds, I poop every colour of the rainbow all the way to Izaro, simply because you take so much damage from everything and you know there is nothing to fall back on. You just have to not take damage to recharge ES, so any other spike, dart, sword, touch of a saw or blade could send you packing. This does not apply to the build outside the Lab, because you can easily sustain yourself with leech or recovery there.

And yet there are plenty of mechanisms to trigger ES recovery or mitigate damage from traps ... ( when it's manageable ).
Wicked ward is even accessible to all class in the top part of the tree in a location that is already very attractive for ES users.
It's easy to get ES to start its recharge really quick too, making traps a joke for most ES builds, honestly. unless you REALLY fuck the patterns up, but it's not a character problem then.
If you are talking about pure glass canons, they might have a bit more trouble in lab I guess, but they also get destroyed by many bosses or else at high level ( and super deep delving builds are a different story all together of course ).


Arguably, a build without any physical mitigation in the current state of PoE is quite bad, honestly.

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Turtledove wrote:

A vaal pact high life leech evasion character is extra irritating to run through trap gauntlets but can be very strong against high level content.

I ran the labs on an old berserker ( so a long time ago ) with VP, that did not have the +instant life from enduring cry, not much defenses either ...
You need to be a bit more careful, but you have life pots and it does the job without much troubles, especially since you could take one Quicksilver + 4 life pots just for the lab if you are that scared of traps.

Sure, some builds are better than others at the lab, it's like literally everywhere else in the game, but there isn't a single high level proper build that isn't capable to deal with lab without much troubles.

But maybe what you consider "extra irritating" is just what I consider "just need to be a bit careful" considering your aversion for the lab, so this one might not be a gross exagerration like Salty's post (imo).

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

A vaal pact high life leech evasion character is extra irritating to run through trap gauntlets but can be very strong against high level content.

I ran the labs on an old berserker ( so a long time ago ) with VP, that did not have the +instant life from enduring cry, not much defenses either ...
You need to be a bit more careful, but you have life pots and it does the job without much troubles, especially since you could take one Quicksilver + 4 life pots just for the lab if you are that scared of traps.

Sure, some builds are better than others at the lab, it's like literally everywhere else in the game, but there isn't a single high level proper build that isn't capable to deal with lab without much troubles.

But maybe what you consider "extra irritating" is just what I consider "just need to be a bit careful" considering your aversion for the lab, so this one might not be a gross exagerration like Salty's post (imo).

Sure there are boss fights that favor some builds over others but not anywhere as exaggerated difference as what you see in labyrinth. I meant the two builds more as a comparison with one another.

When labyrinth was first introduced to the game I was playing a pure evasion, high crit, high life leech, vaal pact, character with a mirror bow.



The build destroyed everything that moved except for traps, which of course can't be destroyed. Before doing lab I had to change the flasks all around, I used to have to even regret out of the VP keystone, at least until I learned the loathsome not fun trap mechanisms. Months later I played a high life regen juggernaut and the traps could almost be completely ignored. There's no other content in the game like that.

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Turtledove wrote:

There's no other content in the game like that.

I would say that deep and very deep delves are way worse regarding what builds can run them, what builds can somehow manage, and the rest ( and I know, you don't have to go through deep delves regarding character progression, unless SSF if you want some specific things, I am showing you an example of another piece of content that is "like that" )

I don't think that swapping some flasks to do lab is a bad this honestly, it's not something that requires a big investment regarding time or resources, it's quite trivial to do in fact.


I have not problem thinking that your aversion to the lab made you mediocre at it at first and gave you troubles with such a character, but it's not really the character that struggles there.
As I mentioned, I went through the lab years ago with a VP character with no real defence, I know how it feels, one needs to be more careful, but that's about it.


And sure, some archetypes have it very easy, I could also point out how tanky but low dps builds can have a really hard time to clear some incursions where an auto bomber just go there and everything is gone, architect easily killed and stones easily collected ...

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

There's no other content in the game like that.

I would say that deep and very deep delves are way worse regarding what builds can run them, what builds can somehow manage, and the rest ( and I know, you don't have to go through deep delves regarding character progression, unless SSF if you want some specific things, I am showing you an example of another piece of content that is "like that" )

I don't think that swapping some flasks to do lab is a bad this honestly, it's not something that requires a big investment regarding time or resources, it's quite trivial to do in fact.


I have not problem thinking that your aversion to the lab made you mediocre at it at first and gave you troubles with such a character, but it's not really the character that struggles there.
As I mentioned, I went through the lab years ago with a VP character with no real defence, I know how it feels, one needs to be more careful, but that's about it.


And sure, some archetypes have it very easy, I could also point out how tanky but low dps builds can have a really hard time to clear some incursions where an auto bomber just go there and everything is gone, architect easily killed and stones easily collected ...

Your deep delve point is true but is NOT required content!

Whenever your thoughts turn to me it should be automatically assumed that those thoughts are wrong.

For the rest of your statements, you ignore the fact that learning how the traps work makes all the difference. That would be the same for most any boss fight as well. The statement stands, I believe, "There's no other content in the game like that."

Why do you feel the need to repeat stuff I just said ?
Yes, delve isn't required content, I was merely pointing out one example of a scenario that prooves your "There's no other content in the game like that" wrong.

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Turtledove wrote:

For the rest of your statements, you ignore the fact that learning how the traps work makes all the difference

Of course it does ( and I mentioned it in the post you just quoted too ), how is it any relevant ?

It's like everything else in the game, you need to learn what the content does and how to deal with it.
I'm have no problems with that.


PS : there are certain (many?) bosses that just wreck any character but the cheeziest builds if the patterns are not respected ... the exact same way lab traps do.
And you don't even need to do much to be able to ignore most traps, by the way.

I was simply arguing that the extreme difference of difficulty between different builds and the difficulty of navigating trap gauntlets is much greater than any other content. You pointed out deep delve and I agreed and pointed out that the difference is that deep delves are an extremely tiny part of the people playing PoE, since it is not required content. It is a matter of degree. Let's try this. With the exception of deep delves (again) the magnitude of the difference between different builds is much greater for trap gauntlets. If you want to make a reasonable attempt at disputing that statement then you should give an example of what game content you are talking about.

Or alternatively you can go off speculating again about me personally. If you want to go that direction though I'll quickly bring up the point that you already broke your promise to never respond to me again. As a reminder, this statement you made was after I called you out for telling lies about me on this forum. Would you like me to link the conversation?

Considering how much I've seen you troll at some points, I probably said that and put you in my ignore list for a while for sure.

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Turtledove wrote:

With the exception of deep delves (again) the magnitude of the difference between different builds is much greater for trap gauntlets

That is not very difficult to be honest, let's pick the Sirus fight, as an example :
- Name lock melee character ( let's go with something that isn't juggernaut, something that isn't absurdly tanky. let's go with heavy strike as an example )
- Archmage brand build


Or even during leveling, let's take a10 Kitava with :
- Namelock melee character ( let's go with heavy strike again )
- Most summoners


In both case, the experience is absurdly different.

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That is not very difficult to be honest, let's pick the Sirus fight, as an example :
- Name lock melee character ( let's go with something that isn't juggernaut, something that isn't absurdly tanky. let's go with heavy strike as an example )
- Archmage brand build

Non-tanky (to allow this weirdly arbitrary restriction) namelock would probably do just fine because getting close to Sirus is safer than not. The difference here would be because of different playstyles and not because one playstyle would do poorly.