Labyrinth is still not fun. It's horrible content

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Turtledove wrote:

...

"Sorry, GGG is no where near as stupid as this assumes"
What does it mean?

"Ignoring the fact that games are supposed to be fun would lead to absolutely horrible design decisions"

you're contradicting yourself.
If i consider any game horrible then i uninstall it!
you're contradicting yourself.
you're contradicting yourself.
you're contradicting yourself.
you're contradicting yourself.

If you communicate on this forum and almost certainly play POE many monthes so it means that this game is not terrible. It means that you find it interesting

PS

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

you can ignore most of the game if you are incapable of accepting challenge or facing hardship.

If you can be honest and noble you can not only say about drawbacks of the labyrinth but also about advantages

Labyrinth does not consist of only series of drawbacks

List these advantages here:

1.
2.
3.

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

"its not fun its horrible."
meanwhile there are players who are making mirrors out of lab in numbers that are greater than these cranky crybabies.
please get real. you dont have to do it more than for 30 mins per character if you play the game at all.

you can ignore most of the game if you are incapable of accepting challenge or facing hardship.

just because 10 people hate this beautiful content does not mean ggg will do something about it. accept the fact that you are a very very very very very small minority and go on with the rest of the content. cuz I think its impossible to please everyone and positive outcome of the lab is bigger than the negative. your small voices can and will be ignored. lab will stay the same and I will fight for it to stay the same if it needs to be.

GGG has already done much to mitigate the not fun labyrinth. So you are already wrong in your false assertions. Your name calling and unproductive baiting is to be expected. However, please continue your wrongness is at least amusing.

I enjoy your suffering. it amuses me.

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

"its not fun its horrible."
meanwhile there are players who are making mirrors out of lab in numbers that are greater than these cranky crybabies.
please get real. you dont have to do it more than for 30 mins per character if you play the game at all.

you can ignore most of the game if you are incapable of accepting challenge or facing hardship.

just because 10 people hate this beautiful content does not mean ggg will do something about it. accept the fact that you are a very very very very very small minority and go on with the rest of the content. cuz I think its impossible to please everyone and positive outcome of the lab is bigger than the negative. your small voices can and will be ignored. lab will stay the same and I will fight for it to stay the same if it needs to be.

GGG has already done much to mitigate the not fun labyrinth. So you are already wrong in your false assertions. Your name calling and unproductive baiting is to be expected. However, please continue your wrongness is at least amusing.

I enjoy your suffering. it amuses me.

It's interesting how free you are at expressing such anti-social behavior and holding such anti-social views.

Proving your wrongness is easy. I'll do it for my own amusement.

The loot-spolisions you can get from lab are great for people that like lab game play. But it plays right into Gibbousmoon's good points already expressed in this thread.

Your ridiculous estimate of only 10 people not enjoying lab has been proven wrong many times over. For example, three years ago GGG was concerned about lab detracting from the enjoyment of their game. So they asked for feedback on a suggestion to cut way back on the disliked trap gauntlet game play. The response was so absolutely overwhelming that GGG ended up doing way more than what was in their original proposal. See Changes to the Labyrinth

Also your silly wrong estimate of a "very very very very very small minority" is proven wrong by the fact that over 430 threads have been created in the Feedback and Suggestions forum started up to complain about lab problems and dislikes. See Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support

So GGG has already reduced the required trap gauntlet game play by probably more than half by significantly reducing the trials required per character and reducing trap gauntlets in the lab runs, especially in normal and cruel labs.

But, good luck anyway on your anti-social hopeless fight to maintain the suffering of others.

"

Staglaitor_ wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

...

"Sorry, GGG is no where near as stupid as this assumes"
What does it mean?

"Ignoring the fact that games are supposed to be fun would lead to absolutely horrible design decisions"

you're contradicting yourself.
If i consider any game horrible then i uninstall it!
you're contradicting yourself.
you're contradicting yourself.
you're contradicting yourself.
you're contradicting yourself.

If you communicate on this forum and almost certainly play POE many monthes so it means that this game is not terrible. It means that you find it interesting

It is not a contradiction. Although if you had repeated your false assertion one more time then even I might have been convinced it was correct. :-) Your assertion seemed to be that suffering through the labyrinth to ascend was worth it and so was a design decision by GGG. It would be ridiculous for a game designer to put something into their game knowing that it would not be fun.

Of course I enjoy playing PoE. Otherwise I wouldn't be here. I hate the trap gauntlet game play though. That is not a contradiction. I did stop playing PoE for a time because of the labyrinth as I described in an earlier response to you.

To me and others, the trap gauntlet game play is significantly different from the regular PoE game play. When I have to focus on traps the game becomes boring and irritating. For example, here's what running through a Burning Rage trial is like.

Here's another stupid burning floor. Wait for the floor to cool, run to the next safe spot, flip the lever. Wait for the floor to cool, run to the next lever, wait for the floor to cool. Shit, now run back to the spot I started. Wait for the floor to cool. Wait here, wait there. Go through the door. I hope that is the last stupid burning floor. Of course there's more and more wait here, wait there. It is boring irritating and not fun to me. Nothing like the kill monster get loot game play in the rest of PoE.

I just had a CTD in Izaro's final room, with full keys and a double-enchant prophecy active.

And not for the first time.

(This will surely please Mrs. Death, since she freely admits to, and even brags about, enjoying the suffering of others.)

Yup, nothing broken here...

The thing is, PoE is not renowned for being 100% stable, with no crashes. The game needs to be designed around the game's limitations, not around a "best outcomes possible" scenario.

That, in my opinion, is the number-one design mistake associated with the Labyrinth.

It also highlights my earlier point about the limitations of using extrinsicically rewarding mechanics to compensate for intrinsically unrewarding mechanics. (And also backloading the rewards, but that's a slightly trickier nut to crack, so I tend to be more forgiving of it.)

You could argue that this is a problem with the game and not with the Labyrinth's design, but then we get into the question of order: Should you design content which suffers the most from broken aspects of your game before or after you have fixed those broken aspects?

Good game design always, without question, takes into account the current state of the game.

You have my empathy and condolences. (Oh and congratulations, MrsDeath, for the joy and amusement you've gained from Gibbousmoon's suffering.)


Regarding client crashes, this seems to be happening to me more. When I'm AFK for a period of time the client seems to sometimes go into a strange disconnected state. I can move and attack and cast spells and hear the action occurring but the visuals for the client is completely frozen I can only hear the sound. I couldn't figure out how to get the game to start working again without stopping and restarting the game. I just wanted to mention that the last time this happened to me I went into the task manager and then just returned to the game and it started working properly again. I don't know whether or not entering and exiting the task manager will reliably work because I haven't seen another occurrence since.

I love how every feedback thread has someone coming in with the "small minority of whiners" argument, with little to no factual basis for their assertions and no attempt to engage in a discussion about potential flaws with the current system.

But I do appreciate how you completely shut him/her down. I'm excited to see the rebuttal/backpedaling. I predict something along the lines of "Even still, that is a negligible portion of the player base, which means that everyone else is enjoying the lab." Which would be as dumb as GGG's statement about bloom, when they suggested that only a few hundred people have an issue because "The vast majority of players have not modified the default setting," which everyone knows is true of every game in the history of ever.

Have to agree with turtle. Lab is like the worst thing ever for ppl who dont use the "legal" add on or farming chants with a char built for its inconsistencies.

Ive failed a couple times on this guy so far and gotta say its really dumb.

I think its 2nd to sirus in reguards to terrible. Phases, immunity, dead ends etc.

Lab ruined the game overall, specs have to be a certain ascendancy to be best. Poe was very open before that, now its like d3 with one basic spec, but alot more gearing.

Most here defending lab didnt play the game before it. Its a great game yes, but was so much better before.

They have done great work on tree since, but the implementation of lab makes those changes very minor in comparison.

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Chadwixx wrote:

Lab is like the worst thing ever for ppl who dont use the "legal" add on or farming chants with a char built for its inconsistencies.

If by "char built for its inconsistencies" you mean "char that is build to fail at the endgame of PoE", then there might be some truth in what you just said.

Else, it's simply BS, gross overgeneralization, as usual around here.

The add on part also falls in the same category.

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Chadwixx wrote:

specs have to be a certain ascendancy to be best

like everywhere else in the game lulz, good one.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

just had a CTD in Izaro's final room, with full keys and a double-enchant prophecy active.

And not for the first time.

(This will surely please Mrs. Death, since she freely admits to, and even brags about, enjoying the suffering of others.)

Yup, nothing broken here...

The thing is, PoE is not renowned for being 100% stable, with no crashes. The game needs to be designed around the game's limitations, not around a "best outcomes possible" scenario.

That, in my opinion, is the number-one design mistake associated with the Labyrinth.

That however, is a perfectly valid point.
I would argue that planning for the worst game scenario only in the context of an online game is too limiting from a game design standpoint, but overall, PoE being an online game, the lab should ideally have a way to be able to join back where one left after a crash.
Unfortunately, this conflicts with the fact that GGG still want people to be able to log out anytime to avoid deadly situations, something that I can somewhat understand but ... that does not quite fit the lab.

Could there be some checkpoint after beating Izaro, but that would only be accessible directly when re-entering the game, and with a penalty that goes with it ? ( -1 key maybe ? )

lab need reword! special rework emperor uniq jewel reward that goes to same always same