Harvest could be worst league ever?

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cacmeister wrote:

I hope that the crafting aspect of Harvest makes the main game!

Oh man....

hope in one hand, poop in the other, though.

Chris said the garden might not come to std but maybe the recipes will
[19:36]#Mirror_stacking_clown: try smoke ganja every day for 10 years and do memory game
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SeCKSEgai wrote:
Not sure why else you'd take a personal offense to that, most people on the forums that are actual regulars don't fall into the whole troll/zealot category the above phrase was referring to, well maybe koppo.


I see very few trolls or zealots in here. I see a lot of people criticizing the league (for good reasons), and I see a lot of people defending the league (for good reasons) - and I see some people in need of generalizing either side into a certain stereotype to alienate them - based on their subjective 'taste' in content. A very dull and idiotic suppression technique, showing lack of arguments and/or jealousy. Don't stereotype people into stupid boxes based on them speaking up for/debating something they like and enjoy. The critics are just as ongoing and 'fanatic', and everyone can see that.

I didn't take personal offense, other than my regular reactions to stupidity.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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kuciol wrote:
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zzang wrote:

So you answer as a game designer working for GGG or is this just made up bullshit i read there?


If common sense, basic logic and just plain gaming experience in various titles is bullshit then yes.


100% delirium went unnerfed into core game together with the posibility to make T16 maps into T19. Characters like summoners, self casters and spelltriggers and some bow builds faceroll T19 100% delirious hard. Only melee struggles but this is another balance topic.

Based on logic yes the game is balanced around endgame content. Whats your point again?

Also i have great doubts about your gaming experience. Registration date doesnt have to tell anything.

Last edited by zzang#1847 on Jul 25, 2020, 3:58:06 AM
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zzang wrote:

100% delirium went unnerfed into core game together with the posibility to make T16 maps into T19. Characters like summoners, self casters and spelltriggers and some bow builds faceroll T19 100% delirious hard. Only melee struggles but this is another balance topic.

Based on logic yes the game is balanced around endgame content. Whats your point again?

Also i have great doubts about your gaming experience. Registration date doesnt have to tell anything.



Introducing "New game Plus" type of content doesnt mean game is balanced around it. We are not talking about current state of the game but balance in general. PoE is not balanced, never was and i doubt it will ever be on a principle how the game works. Some people steamroll t19 100% delirium but thats not the case for vast majority. Nobody plays this shit. Those are outliers, they will always be here. By the current state of melee you can clearly see where GGG wants the balance to be.
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kuciol wrote:


Introducing "New game Plus" type of content doesnt mean game is balanced around it. We are not talking about current state of the game but balance in general. PoE is not balanced, never was and i doubt it will ever be on a principle how the game works. Some people steamroll t19 100% delirium but thats not the case for vast majority. Nobody plays this shit. Those are outliers, they will always be here. By the current state of melee you can clearly see where GGG wants the balance to be.


'Lol' by the current state of experimental melee you mean? Nothing is clear. Its a test that didnt went very well depending on the perspective looking at it. 2hand melee got from almost unviable outside of some specific skills like Cyclone to playable for easier low end content with Warcries but clearly 2hand melee wasnt Q&A'd in endgame content (100% Delirium juiced up) its very likely due to time constraint and corona crises a company cant test everytihng before the beta test starts.

By balance we talk about whats within the boundries of the game with stuff available to us as tools. Judging by this there is so much power creep that indeed its only logical to assume the goal is leading to endgame content which is 100% delirium content.
Its not what the vast majority reaches but ARPG games need that carrot stick for players. Otherwise we just have another Diablo 3 were players reach all goals within 2 weeks and are done with the game.

[Removed by Support]

Another point is the vast majority of players quit after Act 1 Merevil or Kitava Act 10. You think those kind of players ever visited the MTX shop or bought something before they deinstalled?
Sure GGG tried to flatten out the difficulty curve for newcomers to get hooked in maps but the truth is most dont make it into maps and those are not the players where the money is at.
The money for GGG is where the end game players are because they spend hundreds and some even thounsands of dollars for this game. It only makes sense to balance around endgame content.

You can call it next game plus or whatever but its there and cant be ignored.
Last edited by Lisa_GGG#0000 on Jul 25, 2020, 10:17:22 AM
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SeCKSEgai wrote:
It's like talking to a flat-earther, exploring their flawed logic to see at what point they go off the rails.


WAIT?

Are you trying to say the Earth isn't flat? That's rubbish.

I have it, on good authority, direct from the Tooth Fairy and his pet Unicorn that it is indeed flat. Plus I'm sure I saw it posted in these forums somewhere as well by an "expert", so it HAS to be true.
I loved Path of Exile.
I do not love Path of RNG.
Bloom gives me migraines, the over usage of darkness strains my eyes.
Save our game, remove all of the constant RNG and allow us to turn off Bloom or give us an in game brightness control!
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zzang wrote:

'Lol' by the current state of experimental melee you mean? Nothing is clear. Its a test that didnt went very well depending on the perspective looking at it. 2hand melee got from almost unviable outside of some specific skills like Cyclone to playable for easier low end content with Warcries but clearly 2hand melee wasnt Q&A'd in endgame content (100% Delirium juiced up) its very likely due to time constraint and corona crises a company cant test everytihng before the beta test starts.

By balance we talk about whats within the boundries of the game with stuff available to us as tools. Judging by this there is so much power creep that indeed its only logical to assume the goal is leading to endgame content which is 100% delirium content.
Its not what the vast majority reaches but ARPG games need that carrot stick for players. Otherwise we just have another Diablo 3 were players reach all goals within 2 weeks and are done with the game.

[Removed by Support]

Another point is the vast majority of players quit after Act 1 Merevil or Kitava Act 10. You think those kind of players ever visited the MTX shop or bought something before they deinstalled?
Sure GGG tried to flatten out the difficulty curve for newcomers to get hooked in maps but the truth is most dont make it into maps and those are not the players where the money is at.
The money for GGG is where the end game players are because they spend hundreds and some even thounsands of dollars for this game. It only makes sense to balance around endgame content.

You can call it next game plus or whatever but its there and cant be ignored.


Was cyclone ever the strongest build? Hell no and yet it was nerfed many times. Was ED ever the strongest build? No, and yet it was nerfed. We could throw examples for hours. On the other hand we have builds that were in a good spot and got buffed. Funny isnt it?

Most players dont reach maps you say?

17.85% of players have completed 12 challenges and earned the Delirium Horns.

Official data that came 4 weeks into the league, that means at least that many people got to yellow if not red maps. It was impossible to get that many without them.

Chris himself stated that most money they get is from small transactions, not big supporter pack. Yet you claim that those few "endgame" players are more important.

You are also wrong in what is relevant for balance. The only thing that matter is if build can do relevant content. 100% delirium t19 is not relevant and nobody cares if a build can do it. Even people that can do it rarely attempt it. Maybe we should also balance around depth 5000? It is there and cant be ignored!
Last edited by kuciol#0426 on Jul 25, 2020, 10:25:20 AM
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kuciol wrote:

You accuse me of not providing evidence and yet none of you did. All you did was spitting baseless opinions. The fact that you think that most money comes from those few nolifes proves my point perfectly. Chris himself stated that most money they get is from small transactions, not big supporter pack. You can google where and when because i dont care about you enough to do it.

You are also wrong in what is relevant for balance. The only thing that matter is if build can do relevant content. 100% delirium t19 is not relevant and nobody cares if a build can do it. Even people that can do it rarely attempt it. Maybe we should also balance around depth 5000? It is there and cant be ignored! You have 0 arguments besides your opinion, not even anecdotal ones. "But it is there hurr durr" is not argument.


Where did i say nolifers? Dont twist my words please. Its people that focus on endgame and dont stop playing the game when they reach red maps.

You mention small transactions?

I spent a decent amount of money on skin transfers which can be considered as a small transaction. And i know many people in my guild or f-list did as well. All long term players with endgame focus. On top comes a stash tab here a new character effect there it all adds up. All this means is that it favours my point and disprove yours.

And again when it comes to balance all you do is spill out some random assumptions without being involved in the development process of the game nor can prove anything about the things you say and on top comes a lack of game experience to judge balance.

Obviously you never did deep delve in your life since its usually builds with aorund 200 ES maxed dps with as much dodge/evasion as possible in case of dex stacking bow builds that just bust through the delves with raw dps. Its not a viable build for ordinary mapping so its no subject for a comparison but 100% delirium very much is.

By mentioning the stuff like bringing up delve without knowing some background facts its clear to me that your experience dont qualify when it comes to balance topics.

Edit: Enjoy your probation.
Last edited by zzang#1847 on Jul 25, 2020, 10:29:32 AM
Lol both of em got on probation
"Path of Exile's engine is currently modern, lean and fast." - Chris Wilson, September 19th, 2019

"It looks like we broke something with 3.10.0. We don't know what it is yet." - Bex, March 16th, 2020
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Phrazz wrote:
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SeCKSEgai wrote:
Not sure why else you'd take a personal offense to that, most people on the forums that are actual regulars don't fall into the whole troll/zealot category the above phrase was referring to, well maybe koppo.


I see very few trolls or zealots in here. I see a lot of people criticizing the league (for good reasons), and I see a lot of people defending the league (for good reasons) - and I see some people in need of generalizing either side into a certain stereotype to alienate them - based on their subjective 'taste' in content. A very dull and idiotic suppression technique, showing lack of arguments and/or jealousy. Don't stereotype people into stupid boxes based on them speaking up for/debating something they like and enjoy. The critics are just as ongoing and 'fanatic', and everyone can see that.

I didn't take personal offense, other than my regular reactions to stupidity.


So are you saying that it's logical for someone who hasn't defeated Sirus once is completely aware of the current state of the game? That same someone who's one 36 was all the way back in breach and hasn't pushed more than 26 in any league over the last two years?

They're totally entitled to an opinion of the game, but they've got no credibility when it comes to criticizing content they haven't experienced.

For example, the MMO I was playing before PoE was Swtor. I did all the end game stuff, Operations, Pvp, Conquest and my main had BiS gear available. But a lot of time has passed, and all those cumulative changes mean I would have to spend a significant amount of time to learn how much of what I knew was still relevant and just how much I remembered to begin with.

You're saying I was resorting to a "suppression" technique? How about disagreeing with someone based on principal? I've had differing opinions, but feeling the need to suppress has never come to mind. I don't even think of that when it comes to koppo, I just ignore his threads.

It hasn't been the difference of opinion that's lead to walls of text so much as a person making blanket statements about stuff they regularly acknowledge as something they don't experience but nonetheless claim is accurate. They claim things like cyclone is too easy and yet when explaining the lengths it took to build one of decent strength market value doesn't matter. Suddenly he's saying that my time doesn't matter and all the effort put into gathering currency and goods to upgrade my character have no meaning.

Most players have at least some understanding of the effort that goes into progressing later into end game. Outside of rmt, you're actually putting time and effort into it. When a player makes it clear they're disregarding your stance yet cannot relate on the most basic level then you accept their minds are so set that its like talking to a flat earther or anti-vaxxer. They aren't completely devoid of good points but miss the bigger picture.

It wasn't that long ago that kids were drilled to take cover under desks during a nuclear strike. If a nuclear detonation did occur, a desk wasn't going to matter for those anywhere close to the blast radius - but it could protect those farther away from falling debris from the following shock wave.

I bring that up specifically because instead of cautious skepticism, some people take extreme views that they're convinced are correct, like antivax or even flat earthers. In this particular situation, it's referring to people who believe they are authorities on content they've never done and simply write it off as being irrelevant because it doesn't affect the populace at large - except it does, especially as far as balancing and economy goes.

There have been a number of people in this thread that have had a difference of opinion. The last time I interjected into this thread someone went way overboard simply because someone said they enjoyed the league. And at the end, I doubt they were willing to see themselves in the wrong - we both had a poor view of the league but there was no reason to harp on someone just for liking it. A reasonable person can see some merit to things they don't typically enjoy.

Personally, I'm still annoyed that they nerfed quill rain - but I can at least acknolwedge my biases like that. I know I'm no ultimate authority on any content but I am an authority of my personal experience. I know I'm not alone in my feelings towards Sirus as the thread that someone else started still lives on several leagues later. But I also know why I myself hate it and am not just playing echo chamber.

The person I was referring to in that quote said "he knows his shit" but also was keen to point out he never references personal experiences. Hell, you essentially called me stupid and I still bothered to write all this just to explain something I think you just took out of context despite the insult.
Yep, totally over league play.

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