Harvest could be worst league ever?

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

A lot...

First off; I've read through more of the thread, and have to admit that there are some... Let's say... Weird arguments flowing around, I'll give you that. I still think comparing people to religious fanatics and anti-vaxxers is pushing it a little bit too far, as the latter kills people, while the other only irritates you on the forums.

The guy you are referring to, actually has a few good points, mainly about your (blind) views on the market and its position in the game. And yes, people with few(er) challenges are (and should be) entitled to the same voice as you when it comes to the state of the game. They are the majority. For A LOT of people, act one to ten (and early mapping) IS the game. It's like saying your opinion on Harvest League is worth nothing, because you have only 1 challenge done.

And you have to see the irony here; the moment you call someone WK or Zealot, is the moment you're saying "I'm right, they are just blindly defending", which is a pretty authoritative stance in itself. No matter how you turn the tables, this IS a suppression technique, dismissing their views based on a "box" you created, devaluing their opinions.

And I didn't call you stupid; I called your statement stupid. I don't judge people based on their statement - I judge the statement and want to discuss that statement, not them - or their generalized stance.

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This league is fantastic and brings a lot of (needed) mechanics into crafting. The fact that you can deterministically craft what you need to progress - by progressing through the game, is a good thing. The less encouraged you are to trade, the better. The less "power" the market has, the better. Trade should be an option, and not the cornerstone of the game. Will trade always be the most efficient solution? Of course, there's no way around it. But the more tools you have to avoid it, the better.

Now, is the trove perfect? Far from. But it does offer some half-cool fights, good crafts and a much (MUCH!!!!) smoother progression to the game. If they find a way to implement this seamlessly into the game without the trove, it would be fantastic. Is the ceiling a little bit too high ATM when it comes to GG crafts? Yes, but that "easily" fixable.

People go off on how to improve PoE, in depth - and noone from GGG is even reading, caring at all.

Just proves my gut feeling that after GGG was sold it went to crapper, as many have predicted.

The market was brought up because it plays a major role, even if not everyone utilizes it. The AH in D3 showed just how badly that market can impact a game that revolves around loot. I'm not blind to it, but saying its easy to play such and such without considering the market is silly. In trade leagues, its a driving force. In delirium for example it was really hard to sell anything that wasn't necro,cyclone or herald stacking related - it doesn't matter how nice something is if there isn't enough demand to net a decent price.

But more than anything, it was mentioned because that poster said cycloners were so "easy" and deserved to be nerfed. Yet most people I saw that had one moved away from it largely because it was still prone to death when employed against most of the higher end content. I get that 30ex+ isn't a lot for some, but that's still on the expensive side for me, and that's even at pushing 36 regularly.

Saying the highest content doesn't matter because so few people do it doesn't make a lot of sense because if it's still supposed to be achievable by some, then it sets a precedent. Or are we basically saying nerf anything that can do it until nothing can?

As far as zealotry and stuff goes -

Let's take something real - racism. When I was younger I was a lot more optimistic about minds being changed. But as I got older and had more "personal" experience with the negative sides of it, I learned it's a lot harder to change a belief than it is an "idea".

As passionate as gamers can be, changing their minds can only happen if they're willing to consider it. If they will not, it's just logical to accept that the effort required to change their mind (if possible at all) goes beyond the time it's worth.

Now as far as "suppression", what comes to mind is excessively long lines, unmanned phones, ignored feedback, deleted posts, censure, lies, people being kidnapped in the middle of the night never to be seen again... that kinda thing.

And yes, you could totally say my opinion on Harvest is worth nothing given my 1 challenge - but my previous experience is readily available in my profile. It didn't take long to feel that it wasn't worth doing the recipe grind, the atlas grind, and the character grinds all over again and clearly by the length of this thread I wasn't alone.

However I still can see and acknowledge that there are still people enjoying this league. If I was a newer player I probably would be too, but you can only do the grind every 3 months or so for so long until you need something special to make it worth doing again.

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girng wrote:

Lol both of em got on probation

Balanced as all things should be.

As someone said already people here thinking how to fix their game when you don't get paid for it.. come on, love yourself more passion isnt everything when nobody from Tggg reads this aside from mods to do their job.

Not sure if this the worst league.I kinda enjoy crafting harvesting BUT i am sick and tired by nuking 1000000 the guardians and sirus and the drops i got are 0 compared to how many times i have nuked them. It's a joke, RNG is trully a joke.

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HeavyMurdochh wrote:

Not sure if this the worst league.I kinda enjoy crafting harvesting BUT i am sick and tired by nuking 1000000 the guardians and sirus and the drops i got are 0 compared to how many times i have nuked them. It's a joke, RNG is trully a joke.

yes this and the eternal repetetive regrind of all enchants and all maps and all levels can be a bit tiresome

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Gravel86 wrote:

So yeah I know there have been a lot of bad leagues but I can't name one that really added less to each map. It feel to me like playing standard/hardcore with just a some free crafting options every few maps. I have never gotten so bored of a league so fast, I really don't see what it adds to the game content wize, except for making our already op characters alittle stronger.

So what I gathered from your post was "I this, I that, I this, I that" you're just bored with the game in general. EVERY league is just standard+hardcore+some new mechanic. Harvest's "new mechanic" is easier crafting for everyone. Just because you are bored with the game and cannot find something good about it to keep yourself entertained does not mean in any way that it is the "worst league ever" especially on the basis of your argument.

I played some standard and tried to craft a ring and gloves, it was such a nightmare. Wasted several hundred alts, chaos and got nothing good.

In that regard, Harvest is such a great league, all my gear except two items is crafted.
We need a crafting overhaul so much in this game.

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HeavyMurdochh wrote:

Not sure if this the worst league.I kinda enjoy crafting harvesting BUT i am sick and tired by nuking 1000000 the guardians and sirus and the drops i got are 0 compared to how many times i have nuked them. It's a joke, RNG is trully a joke.

It's an aRPG. There is supposed to be a grind

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Phrazz wrote:

And you have to see the irony here; the moment you call someone WK or Zealot, is the moment you're saying "I'm right, they are just blindly defending", which is a pretty authoritative stance in itself.

Here, I have to weigh in a little. I was the one who made the comparison of WK's to Zealots.

Let me further clarify my personal definition of the type of people I throw into the WK category.


I have had many fine debates with players in these forums since I started about 3 years ago. I've also had some in game, and also on Reddit.

I DO NOT blindly say that everyone who defends the devs or producers is a WK. In fact I have been on that side of the fence myself in the past.

Rather, I lump people into that category who never provide a "why" in a debate. For instance, I said ages ago I had no interest in this league, and in a few different posts in a few places I then went on to explain my OPINION AS TO WHY. Now, people who come back and say "your view is rubbish, and here's WHY this league is great and then go on to explain their perspective I do NOT call a WK.


IMHO, the WK is the poster who pops in to disagree with your post or the overall theme of the thread and simply says "You're Wrong. I support the Producers. They can do no wrong" - NOTE, there is no HERE IS WHY in that reply.

Then I would also (on the opposing team) categorise a Troll as the one who takes the opposing view to a WK and simply says "You're wrong. Everything the Producers do is always wrong" - NOTE, again there is no HERE IS WHY or HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES in that reply.


So, I have three categories for people in here: Players, WK's, and Trolls. I have yet to find any non-staff posters who do not land in one of those categories.
Hope this clarifies my intent a little further from my previous "zealot mention" post.