The recent build/ascendancy balance is hilarious

This league I literally did run T16-15s without phys penetration, then with 25+ phys pen, with a 1mil aoe that does like 300k avg damage on single hits.

I changed the tree because I didn't expect those big hit to make any difference but there is a difference between oneshotting t16 rares and needing more hits to kill one.

This is on a 2 hander, once you start using those 1h or facebreaker especially on a 9aps cyclone then it becomes mandatory + master of metal to add flat dmg (which is all a champion does compared to other asc like slayer/gladiator). This part i tested with shattering steel that sends 10 projectiles with like 25-50k avg dmg each

When you triple your dps from 150k to 500k it will seem faster but phys mitigation still affects the ttk and marginally your overall times since every extra attack = +0.1-0.3sec, you just think it doesnt matter since you tripled your deeps anyway and it's still faster

25 phys pen (don't call it pen it doesn't go past 0) costs you 0-3 points if your a weapon build, there are almost no sources on the tree and the ones that are are on value nodes you go for on the way past anyway or already take.

It is extremely passive point efficient as was my point, if you've been playing pure phys since 3.0 try elemental damage cyclone you'll think its the shittest thing you've ever played.

For reference, of people playing cyclone on SC 54% are using impale, 36% are CoC 2% are CwC, phys scaling is straight superior in that regard.

Last league I was playing deadeye - it is fine DPS class.
18 mln DPS build with 5k HP and load of armor since molten shell is best cheap defense there is. 30k HP molten shell before boss and just burst him before he burst you.
Also cast on damage taken, you get 10k HP molten shell here and there with is enough to tank most stuff.
Get flasks for more defense, some dodge and block here and there, and you are tanky enough to do most content.

Deadeye or archer builds just arent very well rounded. It's too hard to get the layers of defense while still keeping your offensive to a good level compared to pretty much everything else.

You also need to invest an absurd amount of currency to get a bow deadeye build to a good bosskiller level, while melee, casters, summoner only need a fraction of that investment while still having better defense. Barrage is just abnoxious to use aswell, 100% single target while having to stand in melee with point blank.

Bow builds typically are just made to speed farming yellow maps.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

25 phys pen (don't call it pen it doesn't go past 0) costs you 0-3 points if your a weapon build, there are almost no sources on the tree and the ones that are are on value nodes you go for on the way past anyway or already take.

It is extremely passive point efficient as was my point, if you've been playing pure phys since 3.0 try elemental damage cyclone you'll think its the shittest thing you've ever played.

For reference, of people playing cyclone on SC 54% are using impale, 36% are CoC 2% are CwC, phys scaling is straight superior in that regard.

Alright you don't seem to get it, let me grab a typical 100 page cyclone champion
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2775438

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/3.10.0/AAAABAQDAQHcAecFPAm7FCAUTRiRGlUbRhv6I-ol3ygqLbQxnjQ-NZI26DrhOxQ9_Ed-SHhJ1U3jUEdRY1hjWK9fOV8_YEFhUmNwZU1oWG87cql2rHfjeA15aISUhNmFUoZgidiK8ItPi6aMz5J9kw-XCJd5mG-bLZtqn4mh2aQZplepbq2NtfK8n702vqfAGsEExVPHGcqQz37QLNeW2L3ZYdwj3DLcjN6H5FHlz-lG6hjsXO8O8CbyRfNv9kj3MvxL_gr-jw==

0 pts in phys pen

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/3.10.0/AAAABAQDAQHcAecFLQU8CbsNjRHVFE0UdRiRGlUbRhv6I-ol3y20LlMxnjQ-NZI26DrhOxRDMUd-SHhJUknVSn1M_03jTipRY1eXWK9br185YEFhUmNwZU1noG87cw507XfjeA1674SUhNmGYId2ivCLpo9gkoCTD5OQlwiaF5stnMSfiaHZpBmmV6lurWW18rcivJ-9Nr6nwBrFU8cZypDQLNNv2L3awdwy3Izeh-Of5ebpRuxc8CbyRfNv9Rj3E_xL_MX-Cv6P

0 pts in phys pen

Let me grab the POB using community fork for all impale calcs, 4.9mil woops i will untick power charges and frenzy charges 3.7mil 97k avg dmg 14aps which is alright, now i will select "enemy phys dmg reduction 40% high tier" -> 2.7mil there it goes your cyclone dps, not saying it weak it is not bad but i'm guessing he could grab dual strike + AC and deal more than that, there's a chronic bs going on in poe with inflating the ns from 3.7mil to 5mil and ignoring existing boss phys dmg reduction

Oh and this is the radius at max stages, sorry but i'm laughing in strike skills with AC splash

mobs don't have even close to 40% pdr though -_- also first tree has 35 passives remaining who cares, your 2nd one has 15% Phys pen because you've taken the free nodes everyone takes and thus my point

did you even look at these?

Remember this is about pure phys being point efficient, I'd struggle to even get to 2.7mil with an ele cyclone even if i made it a tarded character

bows deal physical damage lol it's not like u shoot like magical arrow's ya know? first game u played or?

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

mobs don't have even close to 40% pdr though -_- also first tree has 35 passives remaining who cares, your 2nd one has 15% Phys pen because you've taken the free nodes everyone takes and thus my point

did you even look at these?

Remember this is about pure phys being point efficient, I'd struggle to even get to 2.7mil with an ele cyclone even if i made it a tarded character

You are really making circles around the matter to have a point, endgame bosses are more or less agreed to have around 40% phys reduction, rares have probably 20% at least.

About any build posted in these forums has 0 pts in phys pen and they pat hands with cyclone 5mil when it is most probably half plus i can confirm you that 20-30% makes me one twoshot T16 rares while 0pt doesnt you can get around it i stand by this.

About the rest ele dmg has been neglected in the past leagues because of the still abuse of double dipping even triple dipping into chaos to compensate ggg simply overpumped phys by adding impale as a new dmg layer to phys. I don't agree with this kind of balancing personally because it makes it basically dip/impale or go home

"

demonstorm wrote:

Can anyone explain to me how is it possible for a bow build to be infinitely more powerful as a champion (an ascendancy that should be general purpose for physical builds) than the archetype ascendancy, deadeye?

I've invested several exalts into a bow deadeye and I barely tickle guardians. With my champion impale build, I destroy them in 2 seconds. MOREOVER, my deadeye dies in 2 hits at most, despite fortify in bottle, 4.2k hp and a lot of evasion/dodge (this doesn't help if you get hit, yes, which is another problem of its own), while my champion can facetank a ton of stuff.

I've been playing deadeye since I can remember and this is the second time (first one being in metamorph) that I've rage quit off my elemental bow build due to how miserable the damage/survivability is. It's disappointing to be honest.

I know this may seem like a rage post (it is btw), but I can't possibly fathom how things got to this point. Monsters have been buffed ad infinitum alongside physical builds, while they had the audacity to nerf tornado shot / elemental jewels into the ground. Meta rotation is one thing. This isn't it.

So while elemental conversion was THE way to go for 4 years, and pure phys ranged/melee have been CRAP for ages, the problem is NOW, and not the last 4 years? Come on. I have two guildies I've been playing with this league. They both play Ice Shot, and they both destroy everything. You only "tickling" bosses, seems like a "you" problem and not a "game" problem.

Impale is strong now, I agree. Maybe a bit too strong. But let pure physical builds have their time in the spotlight too, as they have been crap for way too long. Before Impale, no one played pure phys, outside of Starforge builds.

I'm not the one making circles around the matter :p your last sentence is really all was saying before you tried to prove me wrong with your views on pure phys.

However mobs went from 950~ armour to 20-25k for guardian/shaper etc. This translates as next to 0 if you are a 4.7mil build, you will do 4.6 it isn't even close to 40% you need to go actually crunch the numbers if its "more or less" agreed its 40% then those people are wrong.

You'd probably find its closer to 0 than 10% for a developed build, its probably closer to 0 than 5 lmao, those nodes on the passive tree were added so that +PDR and Endurance charge maps didn't feel like you were getting hosed without any ability to build around it, not so that you could ignore phoenix's 20k armour.