There are people on both sides of the fence, but the topic is just constantly downgraded in worth reading by the people being adamant that the XP loss is ridiculous.
The thing I have yet to see is just WHAT benefit this gives beyond the less XP lost, means less time re-farming for that lost XP.
How would changing this improve the game.
I may have missed this, be aware, because of the many stupid posts saying remove it, the bad arguments, and the ton of posts, but from what I have read there has not been a significant argument towards reducing it which has any bsis of improving the game beyond just less time farming if you were to die.
It would improve the game for those that want the penalty reduced. It is a matter of what is reasonable and fair to you, or me, or X or Y. For me, losing a day at 85 vs an hour at 70, a few maps/lots of currency at 85 vs nothing at 70 (because you have content where to recuperate and level up for free...) is hugely annoying and very unfair. Disposing of this would hugely improve the game, in my opinion.
How much a penalty should there be is debatable. The beginning of Merciless is pretty balanced. Also, we shouldn't cling to the XP as being the one and only penalty that is viable. I've heard about losing your gear on death&some XP and having to take revenge on the mob that killed you to get things back. Could use some tinkering, but it sounds more fun and interesting.
But the baseline is to make things fair for high levels, and to make the penalty feel reasonable for most people (i.e., in-game poll...)
So you have no reason beyond "I dislike the way things are" and that the only thing it would change is the penalty being less harsh?
THAT is my point, there is no actual benefit to this beyond lowering the difficulty at higher levels. What is more, at higher levels the actual content is easier due to having spent more time farming (and thus higher amount of currency drops on average), having the more skill points (more skill tree potential), and average gear being better aswell. This means that there is nothing EXCEPT this death penalty stopping runaway powercreep in terms of high levels.
I understand your argument that losing a day vs an hour annoys you. But then again, if you didn't have this and only lose an hour at that level, compared with time invested, this would be must less significant. How much a penalty is debateable, but from what I can see all that is being debated is "Should we make things easier for the reason of making it easier", and that it really has no actual benefit to gameplay beyond this. For a simple example (and a bad actual change), the "make fusings not random" idea where you use 600 fusings and you get a 6l, this would change multiple things, and you can state different facets of this and their effect on gameplay, making it something that (if it had good effects which I feel it does not), would make it worth a dev looking into.
Comparitevely this idea doesn't really give a benefit to any part of the game beyond the lategame for default, to make being careful in lategame less of a requirement and allowing people to pay less attention. It is just to "make the penalty feel reasonable", but maybe the penalty is NOT meant to feel reasonable. Maybe it is meant to make you feel like crap because you died. BECAUSE YOU DID DIE. That is its point. That is why I argue against it. It is because this is not something which gives any tangible benefit to the game beyond making those who are unhappy about dying less punishment. And the reason? So they have less punishment.
So can we please drop this. A developer has not commented, from what I can see there is no actual benefit to gameplay, to the games longevity (indeed shortening time to lvl 100 significantly for those who die), to the games economy, to the games challenge.
SO until there is a change which is not just decerase the benefit, at which point it is really something for a different thread, which would need to be well thought out, this thread is filled with a lack of detail and people making sweeping statements like 'this is completely unfair' with no actual gameplay effect beyond feeling unhappy about it
I don't know what game you've been playing, but all of the death that I remember happened due to desync. We should not be punished when it is the game that's at fault for causing our death.
Did you never reach lvl 70 yourself to see how much exp you lose in 1 death? I play for 10 hours exp grind, then die 2 times to desync(GGG's fault) and lose all that exp gained?
Why do I lose 10 hours because of your problems?
Pls explain how you will adress this problem.
lols
i had a 71 HC die and immediately deleted....
you SC'ers are funny
What did you achieve and how does this make you better?
Please explain.
before investing the time to reach lvl 70+ in this game, im assuming you understand the rules of play...
so if you die, you should know that you lose exp...
i play hardcore...so i know that if i die, my guy goes to default.
really dont understand this whole QQ thread
if losing XP bothers you this much, go play diablo 3
otherwise, learn to play
"The problem with scrubcore is that it is full of of scrubs"
- King Edward the Longshanks
before investing the time to reach lvl 70+ in this game, im assuming you understand the rules of play...
so if you die, you should know that you lose exp...
i play hardcore...so i know that if i die, my guy goes to default.
really dont understand this whole QQ thread
if losing XP bothers you this much, go play diablo 3
otherwise, learn to play
So what you're saying is that your opinion is worthless. OK. Time to move on.
before investing the time to reach lvl 70+ in this game, im assuming you understand the rules of play...
so if you die, you should know that you lose exp...
i play hardcore...so i know that if i die, my guy goes to default.
really dont understand this whole QQ thread
if losing XP bothers you this much, go play diablo 3
otherwise, learn to play[/quote]
What is with this go play other game and other offensive threads ? I think that lot of us would not have problem with exp penalty if it would punish You for Your faults. In this state it punishes You in 70% for unsolved desync problem.
Death stings, and it should. There needs to be a penalty to discourage reckless playing / glass cannon builds that just death-zerg through content because death doesn't mean anything.
IMO - a good balance would be - start exp loss at 0%, each death it climbs a little bit - so by the 3rd or 4th death you are getting the full-exp loss for that difficulty level. Reset this timer every so often (once every 24hr? once every 8hr of not playing?)
Still discourages you from death zerging stuff, multiple deaths per play session would still string - but that one death from a desync, or maybe just from a careless mistake wont necessarily be a rage-inducing situation.
But, if your partway through level 79, die a few times from being reckless - it's still gunna suck, and it should.
Death stings, and it should. There needs to be a penalty to discourage reckless playing / glass cannon builds that just death-zerg through content because death doesn't mean anything.
IMO - a good balance would be - start exp loss at 0%, each death it climbs a little bit - so by the 3rd or 4th death you are getting the full-exp loss for that difficulty level. Reset this timer every so often (once every 24hr? once every 8hr of not playing?)
Still discourages you from death zerging stuff, multiple deaths per play session would still string - but that one death from a desync, or maybe just from a careless mistake wont necessarily be a rage-inducing situation.
But, if your partway through level 79, die a few times from being reckless - it's still gunna suck, and it should.
There are people on both sides of the fence, but the topic is just constantly downgraded in worth reading by the people being adamant that the XP loss is ridiculous.
The thing I have yet to see is just WHAT benefit this gives beyond the less XP lost, means less time re-farming for that lost XP.
How would changing this improve the game.
I may have missed this, be aware, because of the many stupid posts saying remove it, the bad arguments, and the ton of posts, but from what I have read there has not been a significant argument towards reducing it which has any bsis of improving the game beyond just less time farming if you were to die.
It would improve the game for those that want the penalty reduced. It is a matter of what is reasonable and fair to you, or me, or X or Y. For me, losing a day at 85 vs an hour at 70, a few maps/lots of currency at 85 vs nothing at 70 (because you have content where to recuperate and level up for free...) is hugely annoying and very unfair. Disposing of this would hugely improve the game, in my opinion.
How much a penalty should there be is debatable. The beginning of Merciless is pretty balanced. Also, we shouldn't cling to the XP as being the one and only penalty that is viable. I've heard about losing your gear on death&some XP and having to take revenge on the mob that killed you to get things back. Could use some tinkering, but it sounds more fun and interesting.
But the baseline is to make things fair for high levels, and to make the penalty feel reasonable for most people (i.e., in-game poll...)
So you have no reason beyond "I dislike the way things are" and that the only thing it would change is the penalty being less harsh?
THAT is my point, there is no actual benefit to this beyond lowering the difficulty at higher levels. What is more, at higher levels the actual content is easier due to having spent more time farming (and thus higher amount of currency drops on average), having the more skill points (more skill tree potential), and average gear being better aswell. This means that there is nothing EXCEPT this death penalty stopping runaway powercreep in terms of high levels.
I understand your argument that losing a day vs an hour annoys you. But then again, if you didn't have this and only lose an hour at that level, compared with time invested, this would be must less significant. How much a penalty is debateable, but from what I can see all that is being debated is "Should we make things easier for the reason of making it easier", and that it really has no actual benefit to gameplay beyond this. For a simple example (and a bad actual change), the "make fusings not random" idea where you use 600 fusings and you get a 6l, this would change multiple things, and you can state different facets of this and their effect on gameplay, making it something that (if it had good effects which I feel it does not), would make it worth a dev looking into.
Comparitevely this idea doesn't really give a benefit to any part of the game beyond the lategame for default, to make being careful in lategame less of a requirement and allowing people to pay less attention. It is just to "make the penalty feel reasonable", but maybe the penalty is NOT meant to feel reasonable. Maybe it is meant to make you feel like crap because you died. BECAUSE YOU DID DIE. That is its point. That is why I argue against it. It is because this is not something which gives any tangible benefit to the game beyond making those who are unhappy about dying less punishment. And the reason? So they have less punishment.
So can we please drop this. A developer has not commented, from what I can see there is no actual benefit to gameplay, to the games longevity (indeed shortening time to lvl 100 significantly for those who die), to the games economy, to the games challenge.
SO until there is a change which is not just decerase the benefit, at which point it is really something for a different thread, which would need to be well thought out, this thread is filled with a lack of detail and people making sweeping statements like 'this is completely unfair' with no actual gameplay effect beyond feeling unhappy about it
All you post is 100% opinion and how you FEEL the game should be. You have no arguments for the penalty to stay as it is either. It is opinion vs opinion.
All you post is 100% opinion and how you FEEL the game should be. You have no arguments for the penalty to stay as it is either. It is opinion vs opinion.
The game designers built it this way, nuff said.
edit: as good of an argument as any.
IGN: Gahrlaag
Wiki - http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Path_of_Exile_Wiki
Move de sync from de bathroom to de kitchen for better flow!
crisis solved.
Last edited by Gahrlaag#4258 on Apr 10, 2013, 10:14:00 AM
