Exp Loss is freaking unbalanced

"

thepmrc wrote:

Actually the best weapons came from Wirt and were insanely expensive.

Grandfather was NEVER considered the best sword. The best sword was always Kings Bastard Sword of Haste, variations of this were always the best sword. There were relatively few very useful unique items in the game in fact. Royal Circlet, Thinking Cap, Dreamflange, Windforce... can't really think of any other uniques I used often in D1 at late game.

FYI I have D1 on my computer setup to run on Win 7 with no graphical issues and I have converted it to work over my LAN. So yeah, I have played it recently. Not sure where you get the idea that grandfather was ever considered the best sword... maybe you just didn't actually know anything about the game?

All the best armor and weapons came from Wirt. Godly plate of the Whale couldn't even drop in the dungeon, only available from Wirt when very lucky. If you want I can refer you to Jarulf's Guide... might learn a thing or two about D1.

I thought the best items came from hacking the game and making ridiculous super bows?

On a more relevant note, I remember grinding wirt for ages just wanting that good plate

I am pretty confident that Godly plate of the Whale was never a legit item. You could get a Godly Helm of the Whale but not a plate. Plates were around but were not legit they were hacked. Anyone remember the lightforge unique helm (I believe thats the name). It was a 100% hacked item and couldn't even drop.

Here are some uniques that you forgot thepmrc...

Gotterdamerung unided for the very high armor
Najs Lightplate best wizard armor
Doombringer was a pretty good sword
Demonspike coat was ok for a warrior
Stormshield, many warriors used it. It was pretty much that or awesome shield of the tiger
Eaglehorn bow, good alternative to windforce

Thats most off the top of my head.

You are right about kings sword of haste. Definitely the best sword in the game. I bought a champions haste from wirt which I liked a lot.

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Nagisawa wrote:

As a Wizard? Yes, because Adria had the best spells. But as a Warrior or Rogue? The best weapons were the random drops. I remember back in my D1 days having piles and piles of gold not sure what to do with them, because I couldn't spend as much as I gained.

That's complete BS. Unique toys were not purchasable. And The Grandfather was considered the best sword for a long time.

No, you obviously haven't played Diablo or Diablo 2 in a while, if at all, if you can make statements like that with a serious face.

Sorry, but from here on in, your opinion is suspect.

Did you play D1? Uniques were not always the best especially for warriors and rogues. You could buy some amazing swords/bows/staffs from wirt or griswald such as...

Kings sword of haste/carnage/slaughter
Merciless bow of the heavens
Arch angels staff of wizardry/apocalypse
Godly helm of the whale
Awesome shield of the Tiger

Those are just off the top of my head from what I remember. I was a kid back then but I played it a lot as you can see I remember it pretty well.

XP loss on death isn't an issue. Irreparable XP loss on death when OHKO attacks are on many monsters is an issue.

The simplest fix is the D2 method. You died? Retrieve your corpse and regain the XP. I'd have 100% return of last lost XP. That would prevent penalization of "1 off" deaths such as from lag or turning the corner into a death trap while making zerging as impractical as it currently is.

The best players never really die anyway. *points at hardcore*

"

Autocthon wrote:

XP loss on death isn't an issue. Irreparable XP loss on death when OHKO attacks are on many monsters is an issue.

The simplest fix is the D2 method. You died? Retrieve your corpse and regain the XP. I'd have 100% return of last lost XP. That would prevent penalization of "1 off" deaths such as from lag or turning the corner into a death trap while making zerging as impractical as it currently is.

The best players never really die anyway. *points at hardcore*

This would be a better method...
... and they all die... in the end...

Can we god damn stop talking about D1, since its not relevant at all to what we are talking about (as we established earlier)

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deteego wrote:

Can we god damn stop talking about D1, since its not relevant at all to what we are talking about (as we established earlier)

Oh sorry, is this thread serious?

Simple, if there was no XP loss, there would be no reason to avoid dying beyond losing progress. Use of a TP scroll means you could just zerg into everything (zerging means flooding something while taking heavy losses, it does not just mean moving fast. Running past things is not zerging).

So this is here for a reason. Please if you have a DIFFERENT method to punish people for having died, make a new post with the method, andi t can be discussed here, the methods discussed currently aren't good though.

There needs to be a reason to not die.

Having an 'xp' debt is FUNCTIONALLY the same, except it is actually worse as you can drop below the xp lvl start amount. This is a worse system than the other one.

Can we stop talking about this now?

Edit: Oh, forgot to add, just because YOU feel that dying is punishment enough does not mean that EVERYONE does. If you feel it is punishment enough, don't die. Its fairly simple. I die, I feel bad, I also lose XP. If i didn't lose XP, i would just feel bad. But I could deal with taht to kill piety while 10 levels below and completely undergeared. Now if i was losing xp for that, thats different

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Real_Wolf wrote:

"

deteego wrote:

Can we god damn stop talking about D1, since its not relevant at all to what we are talking about (as we established earlier)

Oh sorry, is this thread serious?

Simple, if there was no XP loss, there would be no reason to avoid dying beyond losing progress. Use of a TP scroll means you could just zerg into everything (zerging means flooding something while taking heavy losses, it does not just mean moving fast. Running past things is not zerging).

No one is god damn arguing to remove the penalty, it helps if you don't create strawman

Most people have the standing that the current method of death penalty is way too strong, and needs to either be rebalanced or changed, not removed

"

deteego wrote:

"

Real_Wolf wrote:

"

deteego wrote:

Can we god damn stop talking about D1, since its not relevant at all to what we are talking about (as we established earlier)

Oh sorry, is this thread serious?

Simple, if there was no XP loss, there would be no reason to avoid dying beyond losing progress. Use of a TP scroll means you could just zerg into everything (zerging means flooding something while taking heavy losses, it does not just mean moving fast. Running past things is not zerging).

No one is god damn arguing to remove the penalty, it helps if you don't create strawman

Most people have the standing that the current method of death penalty is way too strong, and needs to either be rebalanced or changed, not removed

But why?

No one here has an actual solution beyond 'make it less significant', at which point it just means less penalty, when i would find there could be more penalty, really shouldn't be dying

"

Real_Wolf wrote:

No one here has an actual solution beyond 'make it less significant', at which point it just means less penalty, when i would find there could be more penalty, really shouldn't be dying

There were lots of solutions in most of these threads. The fact that you probably won't like them doesn't make them disappear, alternatives were offered by many people. But probably nobody feels like repeating themselves for the 100th time.

I know I'm dry and at the point of not caring any longer. This is a discussion that will never have any conclusion, because your camp will never accept compromise (and no, you're not arguing with the "casuals", at least I wouldn't call myself one and there are others here for modifying the XP penalty that are dedicated gamers).