Exp Loss is freaking unbalanced

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Undon3 wrote:

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True_Apathy wrote:

Glass cannon will not exist in this game sorry.

You need to understand that glass cannon doesn't mean you have 100K DPS and one shot the entire map, or that you only take DPS talents.

Glass cannons have defensive mechanisms too, and they also need to take defensive talents.

But instead of "moar HP", they might have (functional) evasion, or active dodges, spellshields, invulnerabilities, blinks, mirrors, reflects and so on, so they would avoid getting hit, instead of soaking hits.

you need to understand that these mechanics exist. And that whether it's 1/100 or 1/1000, you will get hit and you will die. period.

what you seem to be suggesting is a way to make a glass cannon invincible so long as it presses the right keys, has the right gear and takes the correct passives. This is not going to happen.

you can be the best player in history, you will get hit by arc in act 3 at least once and your glass cannon is dead. period.

You want to make a high dps toon with a lot of evasive skills and passives, and throw in some ES or life, go ahead, it's been done before, it works. But glass cannon (as defined) not going to happen

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Undon3 wrote:

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True_Apathy wrote:

Glass cannon will not exist in this game sorry.

You need to understand that glass cannon doesn't mean you have 100K DPS and one shot the entire map, or that you only take DPS talents.

Glass cannons have defensive mechanisms too, and they also need to take defensive talents.

But instead of "moar HP", they might have (functional) evasion, or active dodges, spellshields, invulnerabilities, blinks, mirrors, reflects and so on, so they would avoid getting hit, instead of soaking hits.

They don't have defensive shit they just die in 2 hits then whine about it on the forums then the crowd goes OH TAKE MORE HP NODES and the OP goes BUT I'M A GLASSY CANNON

A repeat and I don't see GGG changing it soon.

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Josephoenix wrote:

what you seem to be suggesting is a way to make a glass cannon invincible so long as it presses the right keys, has the right gear and takes the correct passives. This is not going to happen.

NO. Not invincible. Just as viable as Kripp's FP marauder, for example...

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True_Apathy wrote:

I don't see GGG changing it soon.

Me neither, it takes a lot of work properly balancing stuff, moar HP is simpler. But it only takes me 5 minutes to post, maybe one day I'm lucky and GGG hires somebody that plays rogues and mages regularly, and he will open their eyes. Until then... there's only the forums and the discussion.

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Undon3 wrote:

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Josephoenix wrote:

what you seem to be suggesting is a way to make a glass cannon invincible so long as it presses the right keys, has the right gear and takes the correct passives. This is not going to happen.

NO. Not invincible. Just as viable as Kripp's FP marauder, for example...

not everything "needs" to be viable.

PoE isn't about: Do whatever the F___ you want! it's going to work!

It's a game with some complicated mechanics that requires a lot of thought and understanding to enjoy a multitude of builds... but even with that knowledge, there are still some builds that will not work... as it should be.

^^ yes undon you can always know absolutely nothing and take lots of hp and have a chance of it working.

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Josephoenix wrote:

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Undon3 wrote:

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Josephoenix wrote:

what you seem to be suggesting is a way to make a glass cannon invincible so long as it presses the right keys, has the right gear and takes the correct passives. This is not going to happen.

NO. Not invincible. Just as viable as Kripp's FP marauder, for example...

not everything "needs" to be viable.

PoE isn't about: Do whatever the F___ you want! it's going to work!

It's a game with some complicated mechanics that requires a lot of thought and understanding to enjoy a multitude of builds... but even with that knowledge, there are still some builds that will not work... as it should be.

^^ yes undon you can always know absolutely nothing and take lots of hp and have a chance of it working.

Not EVERYTHING needs to be viable, surely. You said it yourself. Right choices, right moves, right gear. Such choices need to exist for glass cannons just as they exist for tanky chars.

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Undon3 wrote:

Not EVERYTHING needs to be viable, surely. You said it yourself. Right choices, right moves, right gear. Such choices need to exist for glass cannons just as they exist for tanky chars.

now you're getting it. Glass cannons don't need to be viable

/thread

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Josephoenix wrote:

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Undon3 wrote:

Not EVERYTHING needs to be viable, surely. You said it yourself. Right choices, right moves, right gear. Such choices need to exist for glass cannons just as they exist for tanky chars.

now you're getting it. Glass cannons don't need to be viable

/thread

Josephoenix--->allocated to the "We don't compromise, game is perfect" group :)

Meh, who cares. /thread it is since forever, since the title was posted. All this discussion is semi-OT anyway, since glass cannons are still related to XP death penalty crap as it is now.

Meanwhile, I'll just stack HP on my mage Witch and feel like throwing up each time I see the HP pool increasing. I managed to avoid fighter/barbarian/tank characters for almost 25 RPG-playing years, just to basically have one being shoved down my throat. But it's only a game, so whatever.

nice!

If glasscannon builds are viable, then everyone plays glasscannon builds because farming faster is something everyone likes (which is not a bad thing on itself).
But this game has defensive mechanisms it wants to put to use (block, life, armor, es, ev), and in order for these mechanics to be viable, glasscannons need to be non-viable.
Glasscannons will never be viable in PoE, and i dont see GGG changing that for the simple reason that a game that focuses on defensive mechanisms, has higher itemization ceilings and is therefore more complex regarding its itemization system.
If glasscannons were viable, defensive stats on gear would be useless, thus creating/finding the best item ingame is much easier to accomplish (it is as easy as getting 2 affixes correct... instead of having to get all 6 mods correct).

D3 suffers from this problem a lot.
Back when D3 was hard (the first iteration of inferno) you had to make more complex item choices: do you get more allres/armour, or a little bit more damage because the encounters take too long (enrage timer).
After they nerfed everything into the ground and therefore made glasscannons viable, the itemization process has lost all of its complexity.
After the inferno nerf, the itemization process boils down to: get damage, critchance, critdmg, attackspeed, preferrably all of them, and since only getting damage on items is very easy, everyone runs around with pretty godly gear rather fast.

Reducing the complexity of an Arpg is a terrible move, and making glass cannons viable is such a move. I dont see it happening, since GGG knows whats up.

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Undon3 wrote:

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Josephoenix wrote:

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Undon3 wrote:

Not EVERYTHING needs to be viable, surely. You said it yourself. Right choices, right moves, right gear. Such choices need to exist for glass cannons just as they exist for tanky chars.

now you're getting it. Glass cannons don't need to be viable

/thread

Josephoenix--->allocated to the "We don't compromise, game is perfect" group :)

Meh, who cares. /thread it is since forever, since the title was posted. All this discussion is semi-OT anyway, since glass cannons are still related to XP death penalty crap as it is now.

Meanwhile, I'll just stack HP on my mage Witch and feel like throwing up each time I see the HP pool increasing. I managed to avoid fighter/barbarian/tank characters for almost 25 RPG-playing years, just to basically have one being shoved down my throat. But it's only a game, so whatever.

OMG I have to worry about defensive statistics in a video game?!?! what horrible design.

No sympathy for people wanting to play pure glass cannons. If you can't allocate 10-15% of your total nodes to survivability then you should die, a lot. And quite seriously, that is all you need. About 15% of your passives into HP and you can stack as much damage as you want. That is not really forcing you into building a tank.

As the poser above me said, current D3 is a perfect example of an ARPG that gave up on making defensive stats meaningful. Stack damage, stack damage, stack damage, whine about reflect... that was the state of D3 when I last played.... and what do they do? Nerf Reflect Damage LMAO, horrible game from bad developers gets worse due to a stupid community!! yay