Wolcen overtook POE as the new number 1 arpg game on Steam (127k concurrent players at the moment)

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

Grim Dawn and Diablo didn’t release something that bad and Diablo (unfairly) gets to capitalize on Blizzards former glory. My point was that unless their plan was to sell a lemon then run for the hills, they might not be so fortunate with their next monetized release.

D3 launch and early season was PAINFUL.

Many paid games have tough launches. It happens. Not every games intends or expects people to play longer that a set amount of time. Its intentionally designed this way.

Perhaps Wolcen will shift to live service monetization now, or maybe they wont. I don't think they are worried about reputation for Wolcen 2 right now lol

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Miská wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

Grim Dawn and Diablo didn’t release something that bad and Diablo (unfairly) gets to capitalize on Blizzards former glory. My point was that unless their plan was to sell a lemon then run for the hills, they might not be so fortunate with their next monetized release.

D3 launch and early season was PAINFUL.

Many paid games have tough launches. It happens. Not every games intends or expects people to play longer that a set amount of time. Its intentionally designed this way.

Perhaps Wolcen will shift to live service monetization now, or maybe they wont. I don't think they are worried about reputation for Wolcen 2 right now lol

I don't even care it was down the whole launch weekend honestly. It happens. What I do care about is that they released the game with fatal flaws in how things work. Passives that are broken. Skills that are more unbalanced then in PoE's darkest meta's. And thats on day 1.

Wolcen devs have zero clue what they are doing. They didn't just make some mistakes wich can be rectified over time. They have shown that they are incapable. So unless they actually hire someone who is capable I don't see Wolcen going anywhere. Nice game for casuals to run a bit, zero potential to be any kind of long term game.

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Nubatron wrote:

They did get their money up front, but at what cost? How many of those 127k people will come back? There are people (like my brother) who will not play POE because of desync. Seriously, something that was resolved years ago and he still won’t give it a second shot.

Reputation is a big deal to sellout on. Particularly on your first game.

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elwindakos wrote:

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jtggm1985 wrote:

First order of business: According to Chris about 90% of the poe playerbase plays through steam. So there's not a "couple hundred thousand" players who don't use steam. I would venture to guess that on league launch they will have an average of maybe 300k players total, at the extreme edge.

Second order of business: Wolcen is not free to play, so even if they don't have higher concurrent user numbers after the first week is irrelevant. They already got their money that first week, whereas PoE may or may not have.

Third order of business: While the Wolcen launch had its issues, PoE's initial launch was as bad or worse, and their league launches currently are not some bug free paradise either. This is objective fact.

Fourth order of business: At launch PoE had about the same level or content as Wolcen launched with. Hell, wasn't until ~7 years in that poe finally got to 10 acts and ditched the repeated 3 acts. It wasn't until about a year in that they released the first version of the atlas system. You can't rightly compare wolcen to current poe because current poe has had nearly a decade of iterations and software development and league mechanics.

1)Baloney sausage.Last time Chris said something was 60/40.Not only that,when he claimed 50/50,he reported on Reddit 250k concurrency on betrayal days.And you can't find your claim because it was never being claimed because you made it up.

2)Wolcen won't ever see another spike as this.They had good faith and now they must make more than redeem themselves like no man's sky.

3)While Poe has issues, Wolcen was the whole day down for some.Their game deleted the saves,they have duplication and infinite gold,magic find scaling to infinity for loot pinatas from single boxes.Objective fact?Poe never had such issues,or anything that couldn't be fixed in an hour of finding something game breaking(kiwihalt aside).Comparing Poe bugs to Wolcen and stating objective fact is really laughable.And I haven't gotten into its other bugs,those where the fundamentals.

4)You might be right on the amount of content that it was similar.However,GGG had a schedule, daily communication,ethics that showed in the game with their actions.What I got from Wolcen?A paid game,developers hiding for days,making me content to sell to me in maybe 4 months time,hotfixes,not patches per week.Want to compare fuvkups of the past?Dig up some apology posts of Chris and Wolcen and compare.Also the scope and vision which is non existent in Wolcen.There is a reason I saw greatness in the pre open beta of August POE.In Wolcen I can only see demise.Anf it shows even now where the end of hour league has more twitch people than Wolcen.Mot a solid metric but you won't see them surpassing PoE again, guaranteed.They played their dirty hand and lost.And that's the objective truth

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Azdrubel wrote:

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jtggm1985 wrote:

Fourth order of business: At launch PoE had about the same level or content as Wolcen launched with. Hell, wasn't until ~7 years in that poe finally got to 10 acts and ditched the repeated 3 acts. It wasn't until about a year in that they released the first version of the atlas system. You can't rightly compare wolcen to current poe because current poe has had nearly a decade of iterations and software development and league mechanics.

That may be so when you look at it from a moral PoV, as you said "you can´t rightly compare them", so a direct comparison might violate your sense of fairness. But that is not a factual argument. Rather, fact of the matter is that Wolcen released today (as in: the present, currently, not: this very day). So it competes with the PoE of today. From a business PoV (which is what this thread is about because it revolves around player numbers, retention, marketing models and so on and so forth) you can´t really argue "give this game another 10 years, then it will be as good as the competition is today". That´s a recipe for failure. Just look at the car industry for example and compare american and european industry to the japanese industry. And the gaming industry has way faster technological progression and the obsoletion cycle is much shorter. PoE is actually an almost miraculous exception for staying a relevant game for almost 10 years (or 8 if you disregard the first 2 years of Beta-state). Very much in the ballpark of WoW or LoL.

And the argument is also exactly the same as it is with those other two powerhouse games I just mentioned. New releases in the respective genre have to compete with the respective current state of the pinnacle game. It´s one of if not the major reason why MMORPGs kept failing for almost 20 years. Because they didn´t or couldn´t match up to the respectively currently existing top-dogs.

This is a simple fact of the gaming industry, a fact of gaming as a business. And a violation of your sense of fairness is completely irrelevant. Because this is a factual argument.

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jtggm1985 wrote:

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elwindakos wrote:

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jtggm1985 wrote:

First order of business: According to Chris about 90% of the poe playerbase plays through steam. So there's not a "couple hundred thousand" players who don't use steam. I would venture to guess that on league launch they will have an average of maybe 300k players total, at the extreme edge.

Second order of business: Wolcen is not free to play, so even if they don't have higher concurrent user numbers after the first week is irrelevant. They already got their money that first week, whereas PoE may or may not have.

Third order of business: While the Wolcen launch had its issues, PoE's initial launch was as bad or worse, and their league launches currently are not some bug free paradise either. This is objective fact.

Fourth order of business: At launch PoE had about the same level or content as Wolcen launched with. Hell, wasn't until ~7 years in that poe finally got to 10 acts and ditched the repeated 3 acts. It wasn't until about a year in that they released the first version of the atlas system. You can't rightly compare wolcen to current poe because current poe has had nearly a decade of iterations and software development and league mechanics.

1)Baloney sausage.Last time Chris said something was 60/40.Not only that,when he claimed 50/50,he reported on Reddit 250k concurrency on betrayal days.And you can't find your claim because it was never being claimed because you made it up.

2)Wolcen won't ever see another spike as this.They had good faith and now they must make more than redeem themselves like no man's sky.

3)While Poe has issues, Wolcen was the whole day down for some.Their game deleted the saves,they have duplication and infinite gold,magic find scaling to infinity for loot pinatas from single boxes.Objective fact?Poe never had such issues,or anything that couldn't be fixed in an hour of finding something game breaking(kiwihalt aside).Comparing Poe bugs to Wolcen and stating objective fact is really laughable.And I haven't gotten into its other bugs,those where the fundamentals.

4)You might be right on the amount of content that it was similar.However,GGG had a schedule, daily communication,ethics that showed in the game with their actions.What I got from Wolcen?A paid game,developers hiding for days,making me content to sell to me in maybe 4 months time,hotfixes,not patches per week.Want to compare fuvkups of the past?Dig up some apology posts of Chris and Wolcen and compare.Also the scope and vision which is non existent in Wolcen.There is a reason I saw greatness in the pre open beta of August POE.In Wolcen I can only see demise.Anf it shows even now where the end of hour league has more twitch people than Wolcen.Mot a solid metric but you won't see them surpassing PoE again, guaranteed.They played their dirty hand and lost.And that's the objective truth

I acknowledged I was incorrect on fact one, but you go ahead and be agresssive, I don't care.

As to point two, it's entirely possible. Hell, I'm STILL playing wolcen and have about 200 hours in. No man's sky did it, poe has done it multiple times.

Point three: Even back in essence league when I started, poe was down for several hours due to bad servers, ddos attacks etc. It took them YEARS to even have a mild solution to the SYMPTOM of desync, and even longer to actually fix it, which, as far as I know they havent.

Point 4: It was actually less, truth be told. Prior to the institution of the atlas, poe's endgame was docks runs or boss farming. Wolcen has a schedule too, and they do communicate as well, albeit less frequently than GGG did.

In closing to you, sir, it is fine to have gripes about wolcen, but don't lambaste the game with untrue facts. That's where the problem lies.

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jtggm1985 wrote:

I acknowledged I was incorrect on fact one, but you go ahead and be agresssive, I don't care.

As to point two, it's entirely possible. Hell, I'm STILL playing wolcen and have about 200 hours in. No man's sky did it, poe has done it multiple times.

Point three: Even back in essence league when I started, poe was down for several hours due to bad servers, ddos attacks etc. It took them YEARS to even have a mild solution to the SYMPTOM of desync, and even longer to actually fix it, which, as far as I know they havent.

Point 4: It was actually less, truth be told. Prior to the institution of the atlas, poe's endgame was docks runs or boss farming. Wolcen has a schedule too, and they do communicate as well, albeit less frequently than GGG did.

In closing to you, sir, it is fine to have gripes about wolcen, but don't lambaste the game with untrue facts. That's where the problem lies.